PD trans kit?

Panzerfaust

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So from my understanding, Precisions Raceworks is now the only certified seller of the PD kit - I dont think you can even order direct any more. I tried asking some of these questions on FB and never got any answers so I guess I'll try on here.

Do you guys plan on putting them up for sale on your website, or is it too limited of stock? I cant find a clear answer on the current costs of what it takes to get a PD trans but I know my stock 6at wont hold the power levels I'll be pushing soon and I'm not sure what route to go.

Have you guys done any more testing or anything to get more accurate information on Tq levels etc that a PD trans can hold? I know in the original thread it was mentioned that the clutch packs are something like 20-30% harder than the stock clutches, but I can only assume that doesnt necessarily mean the tq holding capacity is also changed by 20-30% exactly - is it more or less? Theres some people out there pushing 700+whp with a good amount of torque with the kit and claim no problems, yet I've also heard that the PD may be inferior to a stock 6hp28 when it comes to holding those levels of HP and Tq due to other people having slipping issues at even lower power levels. Supposedly Joel Bowlin was having slipping issues at his power level when he was doing the stock turbo record runs, and I cant imagine he was passed 600hp even while spraying.

Will there be a page added to your website about the PD clutches that offers info + obviously pricing and an easier way to order? Or can you guys make a detailed forum post about them and how best to go about getting info on and ordering them? @PRECISION RACEWORKS @[email protected] any info would be greatly appreciated about the new sales and tech info.
 
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matreyia

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So from my understanding, Precisions Raceworks is now the only certified seller of the PD kit - I dont think you can even order direct any more. I tried asking some of these questions on FB and never got any answers so I guess I'll try on here.

Do you guys plan on putting them up for sale on your website, or is it too limited of stock? I cant find a clear answer on the current costs of what it takes to get a PD trans but I know my stock 6at wont hold the power levels I'll be pushing soon and I'm not sure what route to go.

Have you guys done any more testing or anything to get more accurate information on Tq levels etc that a PD trans can hold? I know in the original thread it was mentioned that the clutch packs are something like 20-30% harder than the stock clutches, but I can only assume that doesnt necessarily mean the tq holding capacity is also changed by 20-30% exactly - is it more or less? Theres some people out there pushing 700+whp with a good amount of torque with the kit and claim no problems, yet I've also heard that the PD may be inferior to a stock 6hp28 when it comes to holding those levels of HP and Tq due to other people having slipping issues at even lower power levels. Supposedly Joel Bowlin was having slipping issues at his power level when he was doing the stock turbo record runs, and I cant imagine he was passed 600hp even while spraying.

Will there be a page added to your website about the PD clutches that offers info + obviously pricing and an easier way to order? Or can you guys make a detailed forum post about them and how best to go about getting info on and ordering them? @PRECISION RACEWORKS @[email protected] any info would be greatly appreciated about the new sales and tech info.

In my opinion, even if you use the stock clutch packs, you will be ok, HOWEVER, you cannot use the stock bushings. That is guaranteed failure very soon...like after a couple of launches at high HP. Now, PD clutch packs are more durable so that's a no brainer, but most importantly, PD Bushings are the magic sauce. My PD unit has been exposed to 400- 490whp for over a year and nothing has happened. The only thing I cannot get right is the shifting behavior - in terms of smoothness, but I take it that is due to the nonstock power levels. Were I to try to solve this behavior or theorize why this is happening to me... I would probably say that the Eurotrans assemblers used a beat up P.O.S. valve body and I need to replace it with a proper high performance VB from RevMax. If I were telepyrokinetic...I would at this moment direct my powers to burn down that damn shop so it is prevented from cheating people any more.

So I will be upgrading to bigger turbos at 630whp target sooner or later and will see what happens with this PD unit.
 

Rob09msport

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What shifting issues do you still have? and honestly I think im going to just buy a revmax unit to cause I'm done taking this thing out and or apart. I am about to put my old solenoids in simply to entertain the builder cause I understand his frustration and he wants me to know he did everything right. I am satisfied at this point cause besides my bump into first gear it's perfect but fuck it's annoying when you pull up with beautiful car and looks like you can't drive stick only to see its an auto. Also only does when warm. But I bet they are reman solenoids which my fcp ones prob are to
 

matreyia

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What shifting issues do you still have? and honestly I think im going to just buy a revmax unit to cause I'm done taking this thing out and or apart. I am about to put my old solenoids in simply to entertain the builder cause I understand his frustration and he wants me to know he did everything right. I am satisfied at this point cause besides my bump into first gear it's perfect but fuck it's annoying when you pull up with beautiful car and looks like you can't drive stick only to see its an auto. Also only does when warm. But I bet they are reman solenoids which my fcp ones prob are to

My car shifts super smooth in normal driving. But goes uncivil shifting when driving over 50% pedal input...it just can't seem to be smooth shifting at more than normal input. Has a slight pull back then go forward sensation. I've tried many combinations of the xHP all stages... I will say that the smooth shifting does work in the stock PD flash under high pedal input...but the shift times for the PD stock settings is way too slow for my taste.

Just can't seem to get xHP to play nice with the PD unit. Almost two years testing now. Fuck it, I will try to flash back to stock again and set minimum manual shift times and leave it be. xHP is only good for the gear readout at this point for me. I think it works great with stock trannys, but for custom trannys...no way José.
 

Rob09msport

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I thought ekp helped ? Honestly I set torque reduction to negative 30 or 50 and feels great when i have at 0 or even tried increasing it has that choppy pause you described. Also I was running 20 percent faster shifts and that seemed most responsive
 

matreyia

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I thought ekp helped ? Honestly I set torque reduction to negative 30 or 50 and feels great when i have at 0 or even tried increasing it has that choppy pause you described. Also I was running 20 percent faster shifts and that seemed most responsive

Wait, you went to 'torque reduction' menu and pushed the slider to the LEFT side by 30-50%? That means you are increasing torque by lowering the reduction request.

If you push the slider to the RIGHT side then that means you are DECREASING torque by raising the reduction request.

So just to be on the same page, you pushed the slider to the LEFT side by 30-50%?

Yes, BPM4 upgraded fuel controller unit did help a ton with choppiness...but not all.
 

Rob09msport

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Ya I know its confusing as hell and doesnt help they had it backwards in instructions for first few weeks but ya you got it I just recently tried going 0 and positive like more torque reduction and it was horrible it was always a little choppy but with the pd kit it is multiplied it's almost like it needs to stay loaded during shift or it feels like someone cant drive stick and pulls out of gear with clutch half down then just has foot accidentally slide back off clutch into gear if that makes any sense
 

matreyia

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Ya I know its confusing as hell and doesnt help they had it backwards in instructions for first few weeks but ya you got it I just recently tried going 0 and positive like more torque reduction and it was horrible it was always a little choppy but with the pd kit it is multiplied it's almost like it needs to stay loaded during shift or it feels like someone cant drive stick and pulls out of gear with clutch half down then just has foot accidentally slide back off clutch into gear if that makes any sense

Holy Hell... I tested the torque reduction module...set all to the left side fully... wow, that was a mistake. I go to turn right at an intersection, thank god there was no traffic and there were three lanes... I pushed the pedal down about 35% and it went apeshit and fishtailed 3x. I let go of the pedal immediately but the car did not quiet down and kept skidding on the road like my foot was on the floor. And when I say fishtail...it was major fishtailing and skidding...three times where the car was almost turned against traffic and I had to turn it back. I felt like I was driving a corvette or mustang... wow.

Now I am going to drive like a grandma for 100 more miles and do a test with harder acceleration. In case this was a fluke due to lack of adaptation miles.
 
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Rob09msport

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That sounds like needs to adapt but that it already is putting power down better do you use linear throttle ? I used to cause stock throttle map and fbo is little nuts better car runs worse stick throttle is. Now I have a linear throttle baked in but I would try linear throttle if you dont have already also you are running stock shift maps right ? Those can cause wonky behavior I found less is more I raised my sport shifts 10 percent except 1st and 6th 5 percent and my d shifts 10 as well except for 1st which is 5 and I found that perfect for not lugging at all but still good mpg.
 

matreyia

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That sounds like needs to adapt but that it already is putting power down better do you use linear throttle ? I used to cause stock throttle map and fbo is little nuts better car runs worse stick throttle is. Now I have a linear throttle baked in but I would try linear throttle if you dont have already also you are running stock shift maps right ? Those can cause wonky behavior I found less is more I raised my sport shifts 10 percent except 1st and 6th 5 percent and my d shifts 10 as well except for 1st which is 5 and I found that perfect for not lugging at all but still good mpg.

Stage 3 with all default EXCEPT for torque reduction request sliders all the way to the left.
Traction all OFF.

Yeah...I should adapt this new flash for another 50 miles in the city before pressing the pedal...and I should really use traction for safety. Because it was apeshit... almost had to drive straight home to change underwear.
 

Panzerfaust

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Well, I saw a post on FB by a newer vendor who is an "official reseller" of the PD clutches for PR.

Some of the things stated by the vendor and in the product page were:
1. Officially rated to 850 whp/tq, though they claim to have someone pushing above 900whp on the kit for some time with no issues.
2. They no longer recommend a certain shop be the ones to install the clutches (thankfully, judging by several comments about that company), just that a very knowledgeable shop who's familiar with the ZF trans install it.
3. They "highly recommend" a fluid + filter/pan change (duh), mechatronics parts replaced, the Sonnax Zip Kit, xHP Stage 3, all new solenoids or an upgraded valve body assembly like RevMax, and purchasing the PD kit bushes...
4. The clutch packs alone are $1300 ($799 until the end of today for labor day/launch sale), no mention of pricing on the bushes and no link for purchase on said vendor's website.

Unfortunately #3 and #4 kind of kill my desire for a PD kit, at least if purchasing new. $1300 is entire transmission territory alone, and with no mention or pricing of the bushes I'm sure the complete PD setup alone is pricier than I'd like now. I was hoping with PR taking over the supply they'd produce more, drop the price and make auto trans upgrades more common but that doesn't appear to be the case.

I have a feeling that after purchase of the clutch packs, bushes, zip kit, upgraded solenoids or VB (because you might as well while you're building your trans) and then throwing the labor on top of that, you'd probably exceed what the original cost was to ship out your trans for an upgrade from PD when they did the whole shebang for $4k or whatever it was. A trans swap is looking more and more likely for me unfortunately, unless PR has some major changes in mind :(
 
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Rob09msport

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Bushings aren't expensive they used to come with it . And if buying a used tranny you need pan filter and wise to refresh anyway. Fco has pan with pentosin for like 2 and change and zip kit and m shift solenoids only 3 or 400 so not bad all said and done.
 

Panzerfaust

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Bushings aren't expensive they used to come with it . And if buying a used tranny you need pan filter and wise to refresh anyway. Fco has pan with pentosin for like 2 and change and zip kit and m shift solenoids only 3 or 400 so not bad all said and done.
Yeah, I know they used to come with it but the fact that it's a seperate purchase now is what's annoying - even if they're $100, it's still extra. I have no issues with them advising a refresh of the trans as I've done that to my stock one anyway (aside from solenoids), I was just listing what they recommend and trying to state it as matter-of-factly as I could when making the list.

As for saying $1300 is new trans territory, I meant like buying an almost-new zf6 or buying an entirely different trans. A used auto from an N54 usually seems to run only 4-600 depending on miles these days. Overall I genuinely hope that PR does something with this setup to make it easier/more logical to access for everyone because I really enjoy the 6hp for its shift speeds and mechanical features - but I feel that I could get a 6hp28 swap done for a lower price all said and done, or a 4 speed that's been proven in drag racing for a similar price to what that vendor is seemingly advertising the PD kit will cost.

Edit: I also want to say that by no means do I think anyone who went with a PD trans made a bad choice, you included @Rob09msport and @matreyia . If anything I'm jealous that you guys got a built trans when the getting was good. I was just hoping I could also get a built trans for a decent price using my own transmission that I know has been taken care of and is still holding strong at 134k as I think it'd be a good candidate for a rebuild judging by it's current performance.
 

matreyia

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Yeah, I know they used to come with it but the fact that it's a seperate purchase now is what's annoying - even if they're $100, it's still extra. I have no issues with them advising a refresh of the trans as I've done that to my stock one anyway (aside from solenoids), I was just listing what they recommend and trying to state it as matter-of-factly as I could when making the list.

As for saying $1300 is new trans territory, I meant like buying an almost-new zf6 or buying an entirely different trans. A used auto from an N54 usually seems to run only 4-600 depending on miles these days. Overall I genuinely hope that PR does something with this setup to make it easier/more logical to access for everyone because I really enjoy the 6hp for its shift speeds and mechanical features - but I feel that I could get a 6hp28 swap done for a lower price all said and done, or a 4 speed that's been proven in drag racing for a similar price to what that vendor is seemingly advertising the PD kit will cost.

Edit: I also want to say that by no means do I think anyone who went with a PD trans made a bad choice, you included @Rob09msport and @matreyia . If anything I'm jealous that you guys got a built trans when the getting was good. I was just hoping I could also get a built trans for a decent price using my own transmission that I know has been taken care of and is still holding strong at 134k as I think it'd be a good candidate for a rebuild judging by it's current performance.

I TELL YOU WHAT.... next n54 is gonna be a manual trans. Fuck this crazy shit. Waaaaay too much effort, time and money into making this work.

A side note: If anyone is curious. A full N54 FBO with port injection and flex fuel can easily leave behind a W12 Bentley Bentayga. The Bentley driver and I as well found this out Monday driving back from Austin to Houston. The W12 is 600 hp while the N54 with Port Injection is 593 hp at the crank. However, the e93 is an assload lighter than the SUV.
 

Rob09msport

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I love the way my trans shifts but when you almost lose count of transmission drops you start wondering if you should have left your perfectly shifting not slipping trans alone
 
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Rob09msport

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I would love dct swap idk about 6hp28 it's not any faster just holds more which look at kenjerman 900 that's bananas. If anything do the pd bushings and not the clutches if trying to not dump money into a slushbox
 

Torgus

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Just my thoughts: The uncertainty and cost to upgrade the auto tranny in this platform is not worth it vs. Manual or DCT swap. It would be if you had a real idea and proof of what they can handle and a guaranteed no hassle solution that a shop or individual can perform.

Unless you have a lot invested I would think most are better off selling and buying the car with the correct transmission for their goals.
 

matreyia

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That sounds like needs to adapt but that it already is putting power down better do you use linear throttle ? I used to cause stock throttle map and fbo is little nuts better car runs worse stick throttle is. Now I have a linear throttle baked in but I would try linear throttle if you dont have already also you are running stock shift maps right ? Those can cause wonky behavior I found less is more I raised my sport shifts 10 percent except 1st and 6th 5 percent and my d shifts 10 as well except for 1st which is 5 and I found that perfect for not lugging at all but still good mpg.

Flashed to linear mapping in MHD Monday and has been way more predictable in pedal.
 

Panzerfaust

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Just my thoughts: The uncertainty and cost to upgrade the auto tranny in this platform is not worth it vs. Manual or DCT swap. It would be if you had a real idea and proof of what they can handle and a guaranteed no hassle solution that a shop or individual can perform.

Unless you have a lot invested I would think most are better off selling and buying the car with the correct transmission for their goals.
I tend to agree with you at this point, especially since the clutch packs straight from the manufacturer when they were available were ~$700-800 on Ebay. For $700 I'd "gamble" for sure and maybe I should've but I've always been uncertain of PD vs 6hp28, but for 40% + markup... nah.

I do have a lot invested in my car at this point though including some parts combinations that I havent seen anyone else go with in order to dial it in exactly how I want, it's got some things deleted etc. So a trans swap is definitely going to be the better bet for me at this point.