PCV valve replacement and catch can solution

Rob@RBTurbo

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Dec 7, 2016
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For those looking for a better deal of the RB External PCV we would suggest looking into the NON-PNP version of the kit (not on the website):
https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/rb-external-pcv-setup.802/page-5#post-13022

We've sold quite a few of these kits and many have been extremely happy with it, more and more are buying it as well so the demand is actually increasing quite a bit primarily due to word of mouth success stories. We are a business as well and do need some margin to make producing several custom parts worthwhile, and we are not cutting any corners on the parts provided/produced.
 
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Jsherry20

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Dec 21, 2016
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Wasn't he going to do a full on vacuum pump race style system? Pretty sure that would cost a lot more than the rb pcv kit which I have and need to install. Just working up the patience to tap the head ports and redo the valve cover.
I have no clue what he was going to do, but I wish he'd share some information with us. I'd rather pay more money for something that is 100% than something that is 90%, I highly doubt the RB valve alone will be enough to fix the issue at least that's what I've gathered from some other owners and tuners. I could be wrong though!
 

The Convert

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Jun 4, 2017
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Has anyone actually measured crank case vacuum/pressure from the oil cap on high boost cars running the RB setup? Is it keeping the car in vacuum? Is it still seeing positive pressure? If so, how much?

I've measured it on my fftec 6466 and my Motiv 750 kits and my car still sees up to almost 1psi positive crank case pressure at up to 17 pounds of boost.
 

Rob@RBTurbo

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Dec 7, 2016
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St. Louis, MO USA
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When in boost the PCV valve setup should do nothing when contributing to vacuum pull on the crankcase as the Intake Manifold is now in positive pressure and the valve is completely closed. BUT if the head isn't plugged and you are getting any further leak down through the VC or VCG that certainly is not helping your cause, as you are essentially turbocharging your CC (through these vulnerabilities) and this "acts" as an additional source of "blowby". This is why plugging the head is recommended asap, but the external PCV setup also needs to be in place to accommodate this (if you wish to retain the merits of PCV function on your engine).

We've had probably 40+ ST (and other big boosting) guys have ordered this kit AND come back with cured issues with smoking and they are absolutely elated, but data on Crankcase pressures provided before and after aren't really common.

To summarize IF you are not leaking any boost through your valve cover gasket (or valve cover) into your Crankcase the external PCV should do nothing to eliminate this pressure (assuming your PCV valve and flapper assembly are working properly), so this means you would be simply seeing a piston ring blowby induced cause for your crankcase pressures under boost. But that "IF" is a factor we wouldn't simply discard as those vulnerabilities are certainly a factor for many.
 

The Convert

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Rob, If you're saying you don't have any data saying that the crank case is staying under vacuum while in boost with your product, then that doesn't bode well to say that your product actually works.

Without a source of vacuum pulling on your crank case under all running conditions, you'll have positive crank case pressure if the car is running. I want to know what your system is doing to eliminate/alleviate this positive pressure building up in the crank case. If your system performs no better than mine, and I have data, then there's no reason for myself or anyone else to buy yours.

It would seriously take <30 min for you or anyone else running your system to get real world data.
 

Rob@RBTurbo

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Dec 7, 2016
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The product works as it externalizes the PCV system and allows retention of the PCV function while plugging the head (which eliminates the vulnerabilities with the VC and VCG- common of the N54 due to the inherent design limitations of its PCV system). The external PCV also allows the use of an OCC on the low load side to collect large amounts of contaminants that otherwise only have a one way track to the intake valves through the vulnerable internal pathways.

Keep in mind a PCV system is what it is meant to be: a low side crankcase vacuum'ing affect on the crankcase under low load conditions (where most engines spend the extreme vast majority of their lives). In the grand scheme of things most engines are not under boost all day every day (quite the contrary!!) and when that is the case the PCV function is alive and well. Additionally unless you are using a very high dollar vac system (using an external vacuum pump) you will never be getting any significant vacuum to your crankcase WHILE under boost, but this is also not practical/economical for many/most street cars and enthusiasts either.

Either way different strokes for different folks: Don't like it don't do it, no worries. Hope what has already been typed helps some understand some things though.
 
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doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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Those are both fairly simple jobs.. Don't be discouraged by them! You will be just fine I promise you will wish you did it sooner after your done

Not so much discouragement, I just got done installing a boat load of mods, in fact, just about every 'bolt on' mod, all in one shot in my garage:

Single Turbo
CSF Radiator
EOS v2 Intake Manifold
Chargepipe
ADE 1000hp FMIC
M3 Steering Rack
Trans Cooler

I also had the LSD, Stage 2+ lpfp and 2 step colder plugs put in by a friend at the shop and have coilovers, SS brakelines and M Sport conversion sitting in the garage waiting to go in along with other little things like the PCV kit. I've already got the taps, just wanting my hands and patience to heal. Also had to track down a boost leak and am getting the tuning out of the way on gas before I do much more because that is a lot of mods since the last time I drove it(Bone stock). So once my tuning is done, I'll get back to the PCV deal.
 

Jsherry20

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Dec 21, 2016
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Rob, If you're saying you don't have any data saying that the crank case is staying under vacuum while in boost with your product, then that doesn't bode well to say that your product actually works.

Without a source of vacuum pulling on your crank case under all running conditions, you'll have positive crank case pressure if the car is running. I want to know what your system is doing to eliminate/alleviate this positive pressure building up in the crank case. If your system performs no better than mine, and I have data, then there's no reason for myself or anyone else to buy yours.

It would seriously take <30 min for you or anyone else running your system to get real world data.
What's your product???
 

Jsherry20

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Dec 21, 2016
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A vacuum pump set up is not that expensive and is fairly easy to install. I run the RB external PVC along with a vac pump for piece of mind.
I need to look into this a little more, I just want to install something on my car that definitely gets the job done, zero questions asked lol.
 

doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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I need to look into this a little more, I just want to install something on my car that definitely gets the job done, zero questions asked lol.
He has a thread on it here in the last PCV thread I think. Pretty neat setup. I think someone is going to come out with a setup pretty soon, been hearing whispers.
 

Jsherry20

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Dec 21, 2016
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He has a thread on it here in the last PCV thread I think. Pretty neat setup. I think someone is going to come out with a setup pretty soon, been hearing whispers.
Well I'm definitely ready to throw cash at a product that is the BEST.
 

The Convert

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Jun 4, 2017
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What's your product???
I don't have any products for sale.

My car is setup essentially like stock. Low load side has the original RB valve, and then my high load side runs through a BMS OCC to the intake filter on my turbo.

I've just refused to change it for a purchased setup until someone makes something and shows numbers that say it provides more vacuum for the crank case.
 

The Convert

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Jun 4, 2017
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Either way different strokes for different folks: Don't like it don't do it, no worries. Hope what has already been typed helps some understand some things though.
Don't get me wrong Rob, I do see a number of benefits to your kit, I personally would just like to see crank case vacuum/pressure values before ever buying.
 

Rob@RBTurbo

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Dec 7, 2016
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So what is the definition of "working"? That the crankcase is going to go into vacuum WHILE under boost? NO. That will NOT happen as the External PCV DOESN'T mysteriously generate it's OWN source of Vacuum- it simply uses Intake Manifold Vacuum (when it is available) to perform a PCV function (under all conditions aside for "in boost"). So if Vacuum WHILE under boost is what you are solely looking for then keep on keeping on, this is not for you. And while you are thinking about it keep in mind that NOTHING will provide any vacuum WHILE under boost (at least of any significance) aside for a dedicated vac pump.

However the External PCV DOES work as INTENDED, let's summarize the intentions in a little Q and A:
1) Does it route the PCV vacuum source externally? Yes! This allows easy servicing and a visual on the components rather than guessing on what is going on and the state of health inside the valve cover.
2) Does it allow for use of OCC insertion into the low load PCV function? Yes! This allows for TONs of contaminates to be captured that would otherwise would be swallowed into the intake valves through the standard internal low load pcv tract.
3) Does it bypass the vulnerable Valve Cover and Valve cover gasket? Yes! These areas over time deteriorate, plastics crack, and is a big issue overall on this platform due to the largely internal and "plastic" design of the PCV system. Heat cycles are a large factor here and possibly some luck, but make no mistake as this is a real concern.
4) Does it mitigate issues by no longer exposing these vulnerable areas to High Boost and/or Vacuum attacks (once head is plugged)? Yes! No more worries of uncontrolled big boosting or heavy vacuuming into the crankcase/atmosphere (pending on where vulnerability lies) which can cause numerous issues.
5) Has it cleared smoking issues for many enthusiasts? Yes! Lot's of feedback on this concept even from a very early time.

We have sold many and continue to sell many of these kits over the course of nearly 2 years and those who have installed it and spent the time to study the PCV system could very easily agree that it works as intended. This all said IF your internal PCV system is working good AND you do not desire a catch can on the low side (where tremendous amounts of contaminates are caught) THEN there is no need for it. That IF is a wild assumption though, and if not now it will be eventually.

And once again IF you expect anything aside for a external vac pump to put your crankcase into vacuum WHEN in boost then you are not understanding the basic system functions whatsoever- and looking into an external crank vac setup (using a dedicated vac pump) is what you are going to need. The die hard type looking to go to that extreme we would certainly recommend going to the external PCV setup as well.

Thanks,
Rob
 
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matreyia

Major
Apr 19, 2017
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Rb pcv upgrade and Bms occ work as I have verified with personal experience driving before and after installation. After two yrs. The valves are much cleaner than previously during the same amount of driving without. Not pristine but a hell of a lot cleaner than before. Not even dirty enough to do a blast.
 

Jsherry20

Sergeant
Dec 21, 2016
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So what is the definition of "working"? That the crankcase is going to go into vacuum WHILE under boost? NO. That will NOT happen as the External PCV DOESN'T mysteriously generate it's OWN source of Vacuum- it simply uses Intake Manifold Vacuum (when it is available) to perform a PCV function (under all conditions aside for "in boost"). So if Vacuum WHILE under boost is what you are solely looking for then keep on keeping on, this is not for you. And while you are thinking about it keep in mind that NOTHING will provide any vacuum WHILE under boost (at least of any significance) aside for a dedicated vac pump.

However the External PCV DOES work as INTENDED, let's summarize the intentions in a little Q and A:
1) Does it route the PCV vacuum source externally? Yes! This allows easy servicing and a visual on the components rather than guessing on what is going on and the state of health inside the valve cover.
2) Does it allow for use of OCC insertion into the low load PCV function? Yes! This allows for TONs of contaminates to be captured that would otherwise would be swallowed into the intake valves through the standard internal low load pcv tract.
3) Does it bypass the vulnerable Valve Cover and Valve cover gasket? Yes! These areas over time deteriorate, plastics crack, and is a big issue overall on this platform due to the largely internal and "plastic" design of the PCV system. Heat cycles are a large factor here and possibly some luck, but make no mistake as this is a real concern.
4) Does it mitigate issues by no longer exposing these vulnerable areas to High Boost and/or Vacuum attacks (once head is plugged)? Yes! No more worries of uncontrolled big boosting or heavy vacuuming into the crankcase/atmosphere (pending on where vulnerability lies) which can cause numerous issues.
5) Has it cleared smoking issues for many enthusiasts? Yes! Lot's of feedback on this concept even from a very early time.

We have sold many and continue to sell many of these kits over the course of nearly 2 years and those who have installed it and spent the time to study the PCV system could very easily agree that it works as intended. This all said IF your internal PCV system is working good AND you do not desire a catch can on the low side (where tremendous amounts of contaminates are caught) THEN there is no need for it. That IF is a wild assumption though, and if not now it will be eventually.

And once again IF you expect anything aside for a external vac pump to put your crankcase into vacuum WHEN in boost then you are not understanding the basic system functions whatsoever- and looking into an external crank vac setup (using a dedicated vac pump) is what you are going to need. The die hard type looking to go to that extreme we would certainly recommend going to the external PCV setup as well.

Thanks,
Rob
Thank you for the explanation I really appreciate it!