New HPFP Upgrade - SpoolPerformance Helix
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Even if it is just a different approach to overdrive the HPFP... it should be easy to install and fit a car with active steering.
If pricing is right this could be a good upgrade for a FBO car.
If pricing is right this could be a good upgrade for a FBO car.
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
Definitely a simplified Shotgun and very likely a much more elegant solution installed. Fueling wise all you need to figure out is how much this overdrives the HPFP compared to that to the shotgun, and if similar then will result in a similar pumping capacity.
If the price is right, the overdrive is on point, and the install is as easy as it looks this will sell like hotcakes.
Rob
If the price is right, the overdrive is on point, and the install is as easy as it looks this will sell like hotcakes.
Rob
Hey guys, since this isn't a vendor thread, and we have some knowledge of the product directly from two people testing it. We can speak on it, and hopefully, dispell some of the questions/comparisons to the shotgun.
First off we think this is a great idea, and if well executed 100% has its place in the market. It is a simple device and does exactly what the Shotgun does. Takes a positive displacement pump, and spins it faster thus increasing its pumping capacity.
A few facts that people should know up front based on the information given to us directly from people who have this product. We can say with 110% certainty this does not spin the HPFP as fast as the shotgun on the belt does. Meaning this has less flow potential, again it's a simple matter. Spin a positive displacement pump faster, increase its output, spin it slower decrease its output. Since this spins slower than the shotgun it simply will not flow as much. We rate the Single Barrel at right around 550WHP on 100% E85 (much higher for lower blends), since this option does not flow as much who knows what it will support, but in the 500WHP (100% E85) area would be our guess, depending on the price that may or may not be worth it to some people.
Another thing to consider if 500WHP is not enough for you, there is no way to add another pump in like we do with the double barrel. You put the overdrive on the HPFP, and you get what you get if you want more DI only you are out of luck.
Something else that should be in peoples minds, this uses a planetary gear set up, while that is a well known, and common way to build an overdrive, the gears are expensive if made properly, and if too much RPM is pushed through the gear set you can real-time failures. In the shotgun they only thing you have that is RPM dependant is the bearings which are rated at over 16,000RPM, much higher than they will ever see. Will the gears be able to withstand the RPM, that remains to be seen, but its something to keep a watch on.
I see some people saying they want this because they are not getting enough fuel from a shotgun, this will NOT fix that, I also see someone who placed an order for a DB, saying he may cancel depending on the results here. If you need a DB, we assume you are looking for more than 500WHP on E85, if so this product is going to fall well short of that goal.
In the end this is a great product for people such as E6X platform, XI, and Active steering as the shotgun does not fit, but for people looking to push DI only, its reduced flow capacity due to less RPM, and its inability to be upgraded to a DB style upgrade will hinder those looking for 650+WHP DI only.
Just wanted to step in a vendor, and clear up the questions that seem to be asked before too much misinformation gets thrown around.
As always direct questions, email me [email protected]
Chris
First off we think this is a great idea, and if well executed 100% has its place in the market. It is a simple device and does exactly what the Shotgun does. Takes a positive displacement pump, and spins it faster thus increasing its pumping capacity.
A few facts that people should know up front based on the information given to us directly from people who have this product. We can say with 110% certainty this does not spin the HPFP as fast as the shotgun on the belt does. Meaning this has less flow potential, again it's a simple matter. Spin a positive displacement pump faster, increase its output, spin it slower decrease its output. Since this spins slower than the shotgun it simply will not flow as much. We rate the Single Barrel at right around 550WHP on 100% E85 (much higher for lower blends), since this option does not flow as much who knows what it will support, but in the 500WHP (100% E85) area would be our guess, depending on the price that may or may not be worth it to some people.
Another thing to consider if 500WHP is not enough for you, there is no way to add another pump in like we do with the double barrel. You put the overdrive on the HPFP, and you get what you get if you want more DI only you are out of luck.
Something else that should be in peoples minds, this uses a planetary gear set up, while that is a well known, and common way to build an overdrive, the gears are expensive if made properly, and if too much RPM is pushed through the gear set you can real-time failures. In the shotgun they only thing you have that is RPM dependant is the bearings which are rated at over 16,000RPM, much higher than they will ever see. Will the gears be able to withstand the RPM, that remains to be seen, but its something to keep a watch on.
I see some people saying they want this because they are not getting enough fuel from a shotgun, this will NOT fix that, I also see someone who placed an order for a DB, saying he may cancel depending on the results here. If you need a DB, we assume you are looking for more than 500WHP on E85, if so this product is going to fall well short of that goal.
In the end this is a great product for people such as E6X platform, XI, and Active steering as the shotgun does not fit, but for people looking to push DI only, its reduced flow capacity due to less RPM, and its inability to be upgraded to a DB style upgrade will hinder those looking for 650+WHP DI only.
Just wanted to step in a vendor, and clear up the questions that seem to be asked before too much misinformation gets thrown around.
As always direct questions, email me [email protected]
Chris
While not everyone agrees with this portion of your statement, personally I do. The money you end up spending on piezo injectors and high pressure pumps and other upgrades over the lifespan of your vehicle will indeed equal a standalone and some fueling. The problem is that is not an immediately realized expense, there is a lot of custom work involved in doing a proper PI conversion and tuning a standalone to drive like the factory DME would be an expensive task requiring much more time than people likely realize.
If you want a refined experience, standalone most likely is not your best option...Nor is this platform. But I hear you, dumping DI may in fact be in the cards for me one day if I could obtain an N52 head, properly machined.
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
Do you know how much faster the Shotgun spins vs. this product in particular? Remember reading in the past that the Single Barrel only has a minor overdrive (ie. 10%?), so would be real bummer to go through all the work of making a new product that does not at least come real close to a minor overdrive as well.
Rob
Will just say there are inaccuracies posted in this thread. Some information passing around online may have some truth, no truth or are not true anymore. I would highly recommend reserving judgement until you hear it from the company themselves and consider anything else as speculation.
Very interesting. I'm curious to see what the "helix" is, if and when it comes to market. As mentioned, going to a dedicated ECU and completely different fueling system changes the rule. In the case of staying within the factory design, I am hopeful the dual HPFP solution comes to light for the N54 - this is how BMW (and Pierburg? don't recall the OE) chose to solve the problem on the S55, rather than trying to squeeze more out of one HPFP. I'm sure there are good reasons for BMW doubling up the HPFP. There is no inexpensive solution to this problem.
One other thought on the performance numbers, no one really desires to run at max capability parameters - that just leads to unreliability and annoying tail-chasing issues around performance. I know a lot of this platform likes to think in a WOT x MAX mindset ... but it is likely practical hyperbole for most people (not all!) ...
Filippo
One other thought on the performance numbers, no one really desires to run at max capability parameters - that just leads to unreliability and annoying tail-chasing issues around performance. I know a lot of this platform likes to think in a WOT x MAX mindset ... but it is likely practical hyperbole for most people (not all!) ...
Filippo
Rob, yes we have the exact RPM the shotgun spins the HPFP across the rev range, this is not information we are going to share publically when another company is trying to match its success with their product. As far as reading the shotgun is a 10% overdrive. I can confirm this is VASTLY less than the actual overdrive percentage the shotgun adds to the HPFP. A 10% overdrive increase in the HPFP would yield little to no addtional flow.
Chris
Woudl you happen to know what is the most power I can get from stock turbos and pump gas?
If you are referring our comments, our information is directly from two well known tuners who are tuning on this product currently. Everything posted by myself is accurate, the overdrive does not spin the pump as fast as the shotgun.
We completely agree, many people do focus on the "MAX" Of things too much, but the reality is, if one product has more max potential, it translates down that it has a higher potential at more reasonable levels. We have said what we need to say, we wanted to jump in before too much speculation went on, but we have very detailed knowledge of this product from people who are testing it currently. Its a good product, but it has its limitations.
Chris
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
You/VTT have released it many of times in the past, usually when trying to refute the worry of reliability when overdriving the HPFP. While I do not recall the exact percentage and do not feel like searching it out, I just remember it being portrayed as "very minor" increase in speed such that no one should be worried about the HPFP vs. reliability.
Certainly Helix has done their due diligence in that regard (at least one would hope) and as stated above it would be prudent to see what they have to say about it before drawing any conclusions on which is doing the most overdriving.
Rob
Just as an observer, the single barrel probably isn't a slight overdrive. The pulley is as large as can fit, it seems. If the overdrive was less than they wanted, a smaller pulley would have been used which would potentially fit better.
I'd be more inclined to guess that the overdrive is on the high side, such that the next step up via the double barrel is a second pump rather than a smaller pulley.
I'd be more inclined to guess that the overdrive is on the high side, such that the next step up via the double barrel is a second pump rather than a smaller pulley.
Rob, if you say so, sir. If we have released it many times you should have no problem tracking it down. I just spoke with Tony, he definitively told me he never released exact RPM numbers. We would love for Spool to release their RPM data, we already have it. Without any further ado, we will step aside, we wanted to state a few facts for the record, and we have. Everyone enjoy their Sunday.
Chris
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
Currently we have the 4th quickest 1/4 mile N54 in the world that ran a Shotgun to get there, I believe his tuner made 700+WHP on a single barrel on its own, before switching to a double barrel. Our product has been running on vehicles for 5+ years, with well-documented results, hundreds of kits sold, records broken and rebroken. If there is to be a competition it would seem to lie on the side of competitors releasing a new product to try to match the performance we have already proven. We look forward to what they can demonstrate as far as fueling capacity DI only, but the burden of proof lies on them.
Chris
