N55 Turbo Side Intake Progress

Alturiak

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Wanted to share with the community something fun I've been working on for the last few months. For a long time only the N54 guys got to have a clean looking engine bay setup with the intakes relocated to the turbo side/passenger side of the car and coolant tank on the driver's side. I've always liked the look of the setup, and hated having to run my intake over the top of my motor and not only be in a less than ideal location, but block access to commonly serviced components as well. After months of testing out different parts and waiting on vendors and doing a little custom fab work, I finally have something that fits! See pic below for the setup as is:

Engine.jpg


While I'm loving this setup for the much louder turbo noises and such, it is at this moment an unfinished project. I'm currently working with Justin @Twisted Tuning to work the little bugs out. So far no issues with lean codes or AFR issues, which was my biggest concern when starting this. The bug we're working through is the hpfp overshooting pressure targets and hitting around 3000psi and then crashing at the onset of boost/WOT. This is with the car only running 19psi and 8.5 degrees of timing on a Pure Stage 2 (built motor, stage 3 head). I can post a couple logs if anyone is interested in seeing, otherwise I'll update again when we're done tuning to let anyone reading this know if it's a viable intake solution for E series N55 cars. I'm curious to know the community's thoughts on this as well, and if there's enough interest I'll post a write up on how to do it/what went into it.
 

houtan

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Suhweet!! Nice work. Would love to learn how you achieved this and see pictures of how the filter connects to the inlet.

It looks like you are still running the maf as well, is that accurate?

Also, would love to see logs please.
 
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Alturiak

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Thank you! You are correct, I am still running the maf. I really got this whole idea from the setup @ap485 has on his build which uses a machined maf tube you can buy online, feeding into his Speedtech turbo kit. I modified a tmap extension harness from Precision Raceworks to use as the maf extension harness and that aspect was taken care of. For the turbo inlet itself, I used a CTS Turbo silicone inlet from the F series, and cut the tubing right above where the PCV inlet connection is made. Then I shoved a 3.5" Spectre 45 degree aluminum elbow in there, used another 3.5" 45 degree silicone coupler, shoved the maf tube in the coupler, and then fit the filter on. Initially I've been using the Injen filter from their E series N55 intake kit, but I feel like it's just a hair too big at the top, as the hood has actually hit it before (if you zoom in on the filter you can see a bit of it deformed near the top). If it tapered more it would fit perfect. But I have an aFe tapered filter coming in a couple weeks that's a hair smaller but inverted at the top and should fit with ease in the hole on the passenger side.

For ducting, I modified a Turner Motorsports intake system for the M57 diesel version of our cars, and did their aluminum expansion tank relocation as well. The ducting does require a fair amount of cutting since this configuration sits in a much different spot than the M57 inlet does, but it's all only aluminum so it wasn't hard at all.

Here are a couple of my latest datalogs. I uploaded a 3rd gear and a 4th gear pull but let me know if it's not correct. I'm a little ignorant when it comes to datazap lol. But let me know how they look, and if you think there may be something else at play besides the hpfp rail pressure issue.

3rd gear- https://datazap.me/u/alturiak/n55-t...-15-17-25&mark=5&trim=8&tmin=11.55&tmax=27.12

4th gear- https://datazap.me/u/alturiak/n55-t...3-4-7-8-15-17-25&trim=8&tmin=11.54&tmax=29.16

I need to fix a coolant leak in the next few days (damn CSF drain plug!) so when I'm in there I'll take some more pics of the inlet setup :grinning:
 

houtan

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Thanks for sharing how you went about everything.

The logs look decent, but you must be feeling the oscillations, right? Also, boost isnt following target. Just curious, did your logs look the same pre intake modification?

Also, can you add "PWM of the VCV" logging parameter. That might not be the exact name, but it should be right before rail pressure mean psi. That channel tells you the duty cycle of the HPFP.
 

wheela

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It looks like your dme pulls timing way back at the start of the pull, and doesn't recover until about half way through the pull, but it's not due to timing corrections. Are you up against some kind of torque limit?
 

houtan

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I don’t think that’s a torque limit imo. That looks like the timing curve in the tune. I ageee, it can ramp up much faster, but it may be that way since the HPFP is already struggling with the current timing and boost and ramping the timing up faster will could make the rail pressure drop even more.

Having said that, we need to see the duty cycle of the hpfp to see if it is at the stock setting or ramping up higher than the stock constraints. A lot of tuners do not know how to do that because the tables are not in the public xdf.
 

wheela

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Yeah, that could be. It just looked to me like an abrubt scoop taken out of the timing curves at the start, and the values were lower than I was expecting in the trough, so I wasn't thinking that is how the timing tables would have been set up.

Out of curiosity, how would higher timing cause rail pressure to crash? Wouldn't excessive timing result in knock and timing corrections, and not impact fueling? I'm still learning this platform, and haven't tried my own custom tune yet.
 

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houtan

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I am no tuner as well. Although I do tune my own car lol. My timing “tub” at spool up drops similar to the logs here, but the lowest timing I go to is closer to 6 degrees and have little timing corrections.

Not sure if more timing without corrections requires more fuel, but I can tell you my car is faster when I safely target more timing. So to me faster means more fuel. But again that’s just my thoughts, I am no pro.

I still believe the tune is asking for that timing curve. Typically timing drops at spool up and then ramps back up. That’s what makes me think the tune is asking for that curve.
 

houtan

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Here’s an example of ab old tune when I had the PS2.
 

Alturiak

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Thanks for sharing how you went about everything.

The logs look decent, but you must be feeling the oscillations, right? Also, boost isnt following target. Just curious, did your logs look the same pre intake modification?

Also, can you add "PWM of the VCV" logging parameter. That might not be the exact name, but it should be right before rail pressure mean psi. That channel tells you the duty cycle of the HPFP.
Surprisingly, I don't notice them much anymore because they're gone by about 4000rpms. I asked Justin about that though and he told me that's as smooth as he can get it, so I'm not sure what's causing it. And same with the boost not following target, especially in 3rd gear. Every time I've brought it up to him he just tells me how boost is load based with MHD and he can't increase the WGDC anymore... but I'd love suggestions on that if you have any insights because coming from a JB4 where that is super easy to dial in it was driving me nuts the boost being so off target like that. It's better in 4th but still dips by a couple psi which is still annoying...

After looking for that parameter you asked about, I saw that there are a ton of parameters that were not selected in my MHD settings (SMH). So I've now selected them all so I'll be able to include that in future logs.
As requested, here are some additional pics of the setup I took while I was messing with the cooling system:

IMG-1872.jpg


Closer to see the inlet and coupler/elbow used as well. I moved the OCC return line out of the way so you could see in there better:
IMG-1873.jpg


IMG-1874.jpg


And here are my newest logs. Car feels much better than with V3, and was having hpfp issues far less than before. @houtan how did you embed your datazap log? I'd like to do that for future posting haha.
Until then, here's the logs:
3rd Gear Pull
4th Gear Pull
4th Gear Pull (2)

Let me know what you guys think. I'm strongly considering moving to the Doc Race N55 bottom mount kit with a PTE5862 Gen2 turbo since Speedtech removed the EFR turbos from their lineup.
 

houtan

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Thanks for the pictures. Hopefully I can do something similar one day. One of the many things I want to do haha.

My logs are uploaded to spoolstreet. Much easier to view logs on a phone via spoolstreet and they provide the information when you are viewing logs to embed them in a post.

I am surprised a “pro tuner” is saying those things to you. Those oscillations are most likely due to pid settings that need to be adjusted. I can post logs of a couple other forum members who are amateurs with much better pid control. They can also get to 100% wgdc. All of that is in the tune. Maybe he was saying he can’t get to 100% wgdc because you will be short on fuel?

The e series n55 is challenging to dial in using pid. It takes work. You paid money for a tune and it shouldnt drive worse than stock. Boost should be close to target with pid based times as well.

My log above was using commanded wgdc, so it doesn’t use target, I just tell it what wgdc I want (for the most part) and start adjusting until I get to the correct boost level.

Nice you found the parameters. I wouldn’t add them all because it slows down your data acquisition. At least for me it does. I would add pwm for vcv and the three torque limits and anything else you are interested in. But a lot of the parameters are not necessary.
 
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Twisted Tuning

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It looks like your dme pulls timing way back at the start of the pull, and doesn't recover until about half way through the pull, but it's not due to timing corrections. Are you up against some kind of torque limit?

I don’t think that’s a torque limit imo. That looks like the timing curve in the tune. I ageee, it can ramp up much faster, but it may be that way since the HPFP is already struggling with the current timing and boost and ramping the timing up faster will could make the rail pressure drop even more.

Having said that, we need to see the duty cycle of the hpfp to see if it is at the stock setting or ramping up higher than the stock constraints. A lot of tuners do not know how to do that because the tables are not in the public xdf.


timing targets at spool are low in the beginning. I generally start with low timing in the beginning until load and boost is where i want it to be then bring timing back in to safe targets. But no, not a torque limiter, correct.


Surprisingly, I don't notice them much anymore because they're gone by about 4000rpms. I asked Justin about that though and he told me that's as smooth as he can get it, so I'm not sure what's causing it. And same with the boost not following target, especially in 3rd gear. Every time I've brought it up to him he just tells me how boost is load based with MHD and he can't increase the WGDC anymore... but I'd love suggestions on that if you have any insights because coming from a JB4 where that is super easy to dial in it was driving me nuts the boost being so off target like that. It's better in 4th but still dips by a couple psi which is still annoying...

After looking for that parameter you asked about, I saw that there are a ton of parameters that were not selected in my MHD settings (SMH). So I've now selected them all so I'll be able to include that in future logs.
As requested, here are some additional pics of the setup I took while I was messing with the cooling system:

Closer to see the inlet and coupler/elbow used as well. I moved the OCC return line out of the way so you could see in there better

And here are my newest logs. Car feels much better than with V3, and was having hpfp issues far less than before. @houtan how did you embed your datazap log? I'd like to do that for future posting haha.
Until then, here's the logs:
3rd Gear Pull
4th Gear Pull
4th Gear Pull (2)

Let me know what you guys think. I'm strongly considering moving to the Doc Race N55 bottom mount kit with a PTE5862 Gen2 turbo since Speedtech removed the EFR turbos from their lineup.


definitely don't select them all, you will kill refresh rate. i'll email you shortly as i just got your new logs and etc.



Thanks for the pictures. Hopefully I can do something similar one day. One of the many things I want to do haha.

My logs are uploaded to spoolstreet. Much easier to view logs on a phone via spoolstreet and they provide the information when you are viewing logs to embed them in a post.

I am surprised a “pro tuner” is saying those things to you. Those oscillations are most likely due to pid settings that need to be adjusted. I can post logs of a couple other forum members who are amateurs with much better pid control. They can also get to 100% wgdc. All of that is in the tune. Maybe he was saying he can’t get to 100% wgdc because you will be short on fuel?

The e series n55 is challenging to dial in using pid. It takes work. You paid money for a tune and it shouldnt drive worse than stock. Boost should be close to target with pid based times as well.

My log above was using commanded wgdc, so it doesn’t use target, I just tell it what wgdc I want (for the most part) and start adjusting until I get to the correct boost level.

Nice you found the parameters. I wouldn’t add them all because it slows down your data acquisition. At least for me it does. I would add pwm for vcv and the three torque limits and anything else you are interested in. But a lot of the parameters are not necessary.


wastegate PID will be fixed as boost is dialed in. I don't recall saying "it can't get any better" in reference to the the overactive WGDC at spool. I did say however up top WGDC was looking to be maxed. At one point his car was only making 14psi at like 85+wgdc so i suspected a possible boost leak or failing boost solenoid. I also said generally in the past WGDC beyond 85-90% on the PS2 doesn't always translate into high boost production in the upper rpms. Its not always needed to run 100% wgdc anyway. i generally try not to go beyond 90-92%. But that's just me.
 

houtan

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@Twisted Tuning , thanks for the clarification. IMO, the correct approach on everything.

Quick question, are there any unique changes required to run the short intake this particular car is running? If this is close hold information I totally get it but wanted to see if there is anything you are able to share.
 
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Twisted Tuning

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@Twisted Tuning , thanks for the clarification. IMO, the correct approach on everything.

Quick question, are there any unique changes required to run the short intake this particular car is running? If this is close hold information I totally get it but wanted to see if there is anything you are able to share.
not really, nothing any different than running any other intake. Ensure there are no leaks post MAF. Make needed adjustments and drive on. All MAF tube rules should apply though.

IE- trying to have the MAF in a section of straight pipe where ever possible, and not on an elbow and etc.
 
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Alturiak

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wastegate PID will be fixed as boost is dialed in. I don't recall saying "it can't get any better" in reference to the the overactive WGDC at spool. I did say however up top WGDC was looking to be maxed. At one point his car was only making 14psi at like 85+wgdc so i suspected a possible boost leak or failing boost solenoid. I also said generally in the past WGDC beyond 85-90% on the PS2 doesn't always translate into high boost production in the upper rpms. Its not always needed to run 100% wgdc anyway. i generally try not to go beyond 90-92%. But that's just me.
You're right, that's my bad. I think I confused that with something else I was asking you about a long time ago. I took a quick look at my finished pump gas tune and you did remove all boost oscillations at spool :) We are basically at the beginning of this ethanol tune so I didn't mean to imply my logs were polished products or anything like that.

My WGDC is going to be a mystery to me I think. In my latest batch of logs (I went logging a new revision last night) I have a 3rd gear log with 23psi at 4750rpm and 70% WGDC. In the next log I can have 16psi at 6200rpm and 87%WGDC (same log has 62% WGDC producing16psi @ 4750rpm). But in 4th gear at 4750rpm it'll be 19psi @67% WGDC, and at 5250rpm be 20psi @75% WGDC. I'm not sure why 4th gear seems to be easier on WGDC than 3rd. Unfortunately in this round of logging the hpfp was crashing at 5500rpms so I couldn't get any full WOT pulls done since it was causing misfires as well. I've pre-emptively ordered a new one from FCP in case it's gone bad and will throw it on the car when it gets here.
 

Alturiak

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Quick update- got a new tune revision and AIC update from Justin that took a little work off of the hpfp and it resolved the crashing issue! I'll still install the new hpfp when it arrives but I am super happy with no more hpfp crashes and to be able to rip through the gears at full WOT.

I had to ditch the Injen filter as it was just a bit too big at the top and was getting pinched/squished by the hood when closed. It actually ended up popping the inverted top off haha. I also have a second brand new Injen filter that I'll be selling (and can throw in the used one as well) if anyone would be interested. But anyways the aFe filter fits the space much better and it's looking like this little intake project is completed!

Bottom line- it's a viable intake option for the E92 N55 but you will more than likely need to adjust your tune for it. I love the accessibility I have for the engine bay and overall how clean the setup ended up being. I may even do a Turner carbon fiber F series engine cover for added bling, but undecided on that one lol.

Engine 2.jpg


I was on a road trip this weekend and had the opportunity to try it out on a finished map, my pump gas map, and the hpfp crashing issue came up again. I may try a couple runs with the new hpfp installed, but I have a strong feeling this intake setup simply isn't too happy when the car is tuned for oem style intakes.
 
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houtan

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Intake setup is looking great.

I missed that you had PI installed for some reason. What lpfp?

Any logs of the new tune?
 
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houtan

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Sorry, but sadly, I think about N55 tuning a lot, and have some other thoughts/questions LOL

Do you have any logs of your port injection from the AIC?

Do you have a JB4 or know anybody with one? Reason why I ask is it would be interesting to see if you have the same Westgate duty cycle issues using that just as a test
 

Alturiak

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Intake setup is looking great.

I missed that you had PI installed for some reason. What lpfp?

Any logs of the new tune?
Thanks! I'm super happy with it at this point. And yeah I've had PI for quite a while lol. Running Precision Raceworks stage 3 pump with dual 450s and a BPM4 I just put in last week :)
Sorry, but sadly, I think about N55 tuning a lot, and have some other thoughts/questions LOL

Do you have any logs of your port injection from the AIC?

Do you have a JB4 or know anybody with one? Reason why I ask is it would be interesting to see if you have the same Westgate duty cycle issues using that just as a test
Haha no worries. I unfortunately do not have any logs with the AIC. I'm not even sure if I'd be able to to be honest. I have an AIC2-P that is hard wired to the car and I have to disconnect the battery to be able to update it. When I plug the USB in with it powered by the car it is not recognized on the laptop. Although I guess I could try disconnecting the battery, plugging into the laptop and running TunerPro, then reconnect the battery to be able to log the AIC. I have technically done that before when we were verifying what the voltage signal was for a given E content.

And unfortunately I don't anymore... sold it and the PI integrated controller a while ago now. But the WGDC issues were there. When I look back on my old JB4 logs, my "glory" log at 26psi in 3rd gear had the WG pegged at 99 almost the entire time. Every time I sent them to Terry for review to make sure everything looked good he never once mentioned my high WGDC and at that time I was ignorant to what it was so I kept driving around like that thinking everything was good. Then a few months later my crank hub broke lol.

@Twisted Tuning came through with another revision yesterday and the car is ripping! Here is a 4th gear pull from last night, and remember I'm only on E40 fuel:

Rich (BB code):
		
 
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