High Flow Oil Drain Reccomendations

[Cswihart]

should I get high flow oil drain lines for upgraded twins? Oil issues have come up with turbos I purchased and the recommendation is to get new oil drain lines. Should I get new OEM lines or RB high flow drain lines? Does anyone else make high flow oil drains? Forum search did not result in many results for this discussion topic. Thanks

High mileage n54 FBO with inlets

 

[cloud9blue]

No, it is one of those BS craps that RB came up with so they can blame their smoking and poorly machined turbo on something else.

Stock oil lines will flow just fine assuming they are not coked up.

 

[doublespaces]

No, it is one of those BS craps that RB came up with so they can blame their smoking and poorly machined turbo on something else.

Stock oil lines will flow just fine assuming they are not coked up.

What is the basis for the high flow drains anyways? I have not researched the topic as I am not running twins but your post makes me wonder. Perhaps @Rob@RBTurbo can enlighten us once again

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

The cloud9blue guy above is quite the moron.

Yes they can help- we typically recommend them for our true TD04 options however. For those who are using the TD03 center section styles we typically do not. If you are also trying to chip away at the budget, you can get by with the OEM units, but they do sometimes internally collapse as well especially during removal/replacement if not careful- another thing to consider.

Regarding importance of oil draining- it is simple- you want to get the oil back into the oil pan without any resistance asap. If there is any back up, the oil can and will flood the cartridge, which will cause oil seepage out the seals.

Rob

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

There is no basis except a vendor was looking trying to find ways to sell products. I posted photos of the stock drain ID, compared to the "high flow" drains, when he first offered them. Stock were slightly smaller. A drain is a very simple device, it allows oil to gravity feed back to the block. The N54 stock drains are MASSIVE for the amount of oil a properly set up N54 turbocharger is moving through it. If you have oil backing up in your N54 turbos, there is a real reason behind it, and adding "high flow drains" is not going to fix it...

I just so happen to have a set of "RB HIGH FLOW DRAINS" here because a customer brought them to be installed, I showed him the measurements, and I showed him how poorly they fit, getting in the way of the front water line etc. He agreed they should be thrown into a box and sold on the forum.

Measurements
Stock Drain ID: around 12.55MM
RB "High Flow" Drain: around 13.85MM
Difference of: 1.30MM
Take a look at what 1.3mm really is in the picture attached.

That he charges $225 for a part that literally does nothing is a testament to good marketing... Unless your stock drains, are ruined, or for some reason unusable, there is never really a reason to change them. Its a stainless steel pipe with stainless braided hose.

 

[cloud9blue]

The cloud9blue guy above is quite the moron.

Yes they can help- we typically recommend them for our true TD04 options however. For those who are using the TD03 center section styles we typically do not. If you are also trying to chip away at the budget, you can get by with the OEM units, but they do sometimes internally collapse as well especially during removal/replacement if not careful- another thing to consider.

Regarding importance of oil draining- it is simple- you want to get the oil back into the oil pan without any resistance asap. If there is any back up, the oil can and will flood the cartridge, which will cause oil seepage out the seals.

Rob

ha

anyway, please tell me how your oil drain is gonna help if you are still running stock oil feed. real tired of the BS from vendors like you. I know there are dozen of things that can cause a turbo to smoke (kinked oil lines, crankcase ventilation). But your oil drain doesn't help anything for a stock frame turbo that is still running on stock oil feeds, unless you are telling me your modified turbos have worse seals than the stock ones.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

ha

anyway, please tell me how your oil drain is gonna help if you are still running stock oil feed. real tired of the BS from vendors like you. I know there are dozen of things that can cause a turbo to smoke (kinked oil lines, crankcase ventilation). But your oil drain doesn't help anything for a stock frame turbo that is still running on stock oil feeds, unless you are telling me your modified turbos have worse seals than the stock ones.

Modified turbos with larger bearings, twin feed thrusts, etc.; flow more oil. Compound this with any sort of degradation (kinked lines, internal collapsing, or clogging) or simply the non-straight shot pathway to the oil pan and your further away from ideal. And the inner diameters are NOT uniform with the OEM drains and there are zones that are crunched by design; but some vendors will show you the best area for comparison sake as in the above. Why said vendor is in here rather than "rebooting" their past 2 years of chronic failures (to add to the many years prior) should be beyond me, but it isn't knowing this class act.

Listen we are not pushing these parts down anyones throats here, there is an argument either which way you look at it with modifying cars. Some error on the side of caution, some error on the side of budget. Much like hacking up a strut tower to fit an EFR or fixing fabrication problems with a ST kit on the fly; sometimes you take the bad with the good to get the desired end result.

Rob

 

[mikeseli]

ha

anyway, please tell me how your oil drain is gonna help if you are still running stock oil feed. real tired of the BS from vendors like you. I know there are dozen of things that can cause a turbo to smoke (kinked oil lines, crankcase ventilation). But your oil drain doesn't help anything for a stock frame turbo that is still running on stock oil feeds, unless you are telling me your modified turbos have worse seals than the stock ones.

I've seen used stock oil drain create stock turbo and upgraded turbo create smoke. Once the affected oil drain line was replaced with either a new unit or a RB hi-flow drain, the turbo in question did not smoke anymore. I've seen this in person at 3 occassions.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I've seen used stock oil drain create stock turbo and upgraded turbo create smoke. Once the affected oil drain line was replaced with either a new unit or a RB hi-flow drain, the turbo in question did not smoke anymore. I've seen this in person at 3 occassions.

The stock drain is the about same size ID as a -10 AN line. If you would like to come down I will put a set of N54 turbos on the high speed balancer, and show you how much oil is actually coming out of the drain when the turbo is spinning at 200,000RPM with 50-60psi of oil pressure. For a properly set up turbo, its not a lot. If you had smoking you either you had a possibly plugged line, which can happen, or something else was going on. The question posed in this thread was not, if a plugged drain line will cause smoking, of course it will. The question was, do these "high flow drains" do anything over stock drains that are in good working order. The answer is a resounding NO they do not. You are replacing one hole, with another hole that 1.3mm bigger for $225.

 

[cloud9blue]

Modified turbos with larger bearings, twin feed thrusts, etc.; flow more oil. Compound this with any sort of degradation (kinked lines, internal collapsing, or clogging) or simply the non-straight shot pathway to the oil pan and your further away from ideal. And the inner diameters are NOT uniform with the OEM drains and there are zones that are crunched by design; but some vendors will show you the best area for comparison sake as in the above. Why said vendor is in here rather than "rebooting" their past 2 years of chronic failures (to add to the many years prior) should be beyond me, but it isn't knowing this class act.

Listen we are not pushing these parts down anyones throats here, there is an argument either which way you look at it with modifying cars. Some error on the side of caution, some error on the side of budget. Much like hacking up a strut tower to fit an EFR or fixing fabrication problems with a ST kit on the fly; sometimes you take the bad with the good to get the desired end result.

Rob

I have lurking around on this platform since 2008 and have seen how you conduct your business and shift blame around with less informed customers. Anyway, nothing wrong with the larger oil drains, I can agree with that. But you don't them either if your stock lines are in good condition. If you really need to flow more oil through the CHRAs than the stock oil line can support, you are much better off with a single turbo setup or at least a cast twin with a better flowing turbine housing.

Happy to discuss how messed up is the A/R ratio and how high a back pressure you are seeing with your stockframe turbos at +500whp, or even just some turbine speed data. But that would be another thread. And I bet you don't have anyone of those data, because you are too busy "marketing" yourself on the forums rather than doing actual R&D.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

I have lurking around on this platform since 2008 and have seen how you conduct your business and shift blame around with less informed customers. Anyway, nothing wrong with the larger oil drains, I can agree with that. But you don't them either if your stock lines are in good condition. If you really need to flow more oil through the CHRAs than the stock oil line can support, you are much better off with a single turbo setup or at least a cast twin with a better flowing turbine housing.

Happy to discuss how messed up is the A/R ratio and how high a back pressure you are seeing with your stockframe turbos at +500whp, or even just some turbine speed data. But that would be another thread. And I bet you don't have anyone of those data, because you are too busy "marketing" yourself on the forums rather than doing actual R&D.

I know this is going to be hard for you to grasp but there has be problems to even begin the process of "blame shifting". Considering we ship an average of 3 N54 twin setups weekly this is fairly significant news: Of all shipments since 1/1/17 we have had a whopping 1 unit returned due to a customer issue (whoops guess blame was "shifted" even though customer concurred). And yes R&D often comes from experience or experiences and eventually you find a well dialed in set of products that last for your customers which is the ultimate goal.

Lastly marketing is not an RB strongpoint nor has it been necessary, go check out the forums to see how much marketing RB does. No black fridays, no xmas specials, no group buys, no desperate acts to sell. Additionally we have no RB Turbo dealers as we offered them no discounts to push our turbos (yes they all have inquired), we have no instagram (well the last post is over a year old), no Facebook (or FB groups), no forum reps- nor is there any "rebooting" going on over here. But you are correct in that we are "too busy", that is in the form of shipping turbos to happy customers everyday and not hearing anything but good from any of them.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Cswihart]

No, it is one of those BS craps that RB came up with so they can blame their smoking and poorly machined turbo on something else.

Stock oil lines will flow just fine assuming they are not coked up.

Thanks for your opinion

What is the basis for the high flow drains anyways? I have not researched the topic as I am not running twins but your post makes me wonder. Perhaps @Rob@RBTurbo can enlighten us once again

Thank you for getting vendor involved

There is no basis except a vendor was looking trying to find ways to sell products. I posted photos of the stock drain ID, compared to the "high flow" drains, when he first offered them. Stock were slightly smaller. A drain is a very simple device, it allows oil to gravity feed back to the block. The N54 stock drains are MASSIVE for the amount of oil a properly set up N54 turbocharger is moving through it. If you have oil backing up in your N54 turbos, there is a real reason behind it, and adding "high flow drains" is not going to fix it...

I just so happen to have a set of "RB HIGH FLOW DRAINS" here because a customer brought them to be installed, I showed him the measurements, and I showed him how poorly they fit, getting in the way of the front water line etc. He agreed they should be thrown into a box and sold on the forum.

Measurements
Stock Drain ID: around 12.55MM
RB "High Flow" Drain: around 13.85MM
Difference of: 1.30MM
Take a look at what 1.3mm really is in the picture attached.

That he charges $225 for a part that literally does nothing is a testament to good marketing... Unless your stock drains, are ruined, or for some reason unusable, there is never really a reason to change them. Its a stainless steel pipe with stainless braided hose.

View attachment 8521 View attachment 8522 View attachment 8523 View attachment 8524

Thanks for the pics and info Tony

I've seen used stock oil drain create stock turbo and upgraded turbo create smoke. Once the affected oil drain line was replaced with either a new unit or a RB hi-flow drain, the turbo in question did not smoke anymore. I've seen this in person at 3 occassions.

With that said and based on experience with these three occasions. Would you put new OEM lines on or pay extra for RB high flow? I will not be reusing my old lines regardless of which way I go

The stock drain is the about same size ID as a -10 AN line. If you would like to come down I will put a set of N54 turbos on the high speed balancer, and show you how much oil is actually coming out of the drain when the turbo is spinning at 200,000RPM with 50-60psi of oil pressure. For a properly set up turbo, its not a lot. If you had smoking you either you had a possibly plugged line, which can happen, or something else was going on. The question posed in this thread was not, if a plugged drain line will cause smoking, of course it will. The question was, do these "high flow drains" do anything over stock drains that are in good working order. The answer is a resounding NO they do not. You are replacing one hole, with another hole that 1.3mm bigger for $225.

If I take out all the vendor bashing, this is more or less the answer I am looking for. Thanks your your input for this discussion.

I know this is going to be hard for you to grasp but there has be problems to even begin the process of "blame shifting". Considering we ship an average of 3 N54 twin setups weekly this is fairly significant news: Of all shipments since 1/1/17 we have had a whopping 1 unit returned due to a customer issue (whoops guess blame was "shifted" even though customer concurred). And yes R&D often comes from experience or experiences and eventually you find a well dialed in set of products that last for your customers which is the ultimate goal.

Lastly marketing is not an RB strongpoint nor has it been necessary, go check out the forums to see how much marketing RB does. No black fridays, no xmas specials, no group buys, no desperate acts to sell. Additionally we have no RB Turbo dealers as we offered them no discounts to push our turbos (yes they all have inquired), we have no instagram (well the last post is over a year old), no Facebook (or FB groups), no forum reps- nor is there any "rebooting" going on over here. But you are correct in that we are "too busy", that is in the form of shipping turbos to happy customers everyday and not hearing anything but good from any of them.

Thanks,
Rob

Haters gunna hate. Thanks for the products you provide this platform

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Haters gunna hate. Thanks for the products you provide this platform

No problem sir. If you want to read anymore about this stuff, including the same ole vendor debates, including corrections of sizing (comparing smallest points), etc. then you can revisit this thread from over 2 years ago...
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33394

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

If I take out all the vendor bashing, this is more or less the answer I am looking for. Thanks your your input for this discussion.


Haters gunna hate. Thanks for the products you provide this platform

Really not a lot of bashing here, just hate to see people spend $225 for a marketing gimmick. We even run the stock drain on the rear of a large garrett turbo on our Stage 3 kit. Zero issues. Save your $225, and buy something more useful for the car.

 

[Cswihart]

Really not a lot of bashing here, just hate to see people spend $225 for a marketing gimmick. We even run the stock drain on the rear of a large garrett turbo on our Stage 3 kit. Zero issues. Save your $225, and buy something more useful for the car.

Thanks for the info Tony.

 

[doug@frankenturbo]

OP -- RBTurbo's upgraded oil lines are much better than stock. It's not a question of their size (which is bigger), it's a question of design. The stock return lines suck. They degrade over time, becoming brittle and killing turbos immediately after removal/replacement. Recycled OEM lines have killed our turbos in testing. Killed them dead in only a short period of use. But when we tested the RB units, oil flow was as it should be. So either go with RB's superior design or, at the minimum, brand new OEM ones.

I'm not posting this to make friends with Rob Beck. I am posting an opinion based solely on experience with their product. It works.

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

At least someone gets the design improvements considering the entire picture, appreciate the honest feedback.

Anyway considering the time put into this thread I've decided to revisit current production costs on these drains and see we can do quite a bit better on the a la carte pricing and thus the new price for the set is $190. If some feel these are now worthwhile then great or if they still think it is a rip off then that is ok as well.

Rob

 

[cloud9blue]

OP -- RBTurbo's upgraded oil lines are much better than stock. It's not a question of their size (which is bigger), it's a question of design. The stock return lines suck. They degrade over time, becoming brittle and killing turbos immediately after removal/replacement. Recycled OEM lines have killed our turbos in testing. Killed them dead in only a short period of use. But when we tested the RB units, oil flow was as it should be. So either go with RB's superior design or, at the minimum, brand new OEM ones.

I'm not posting this to make friends with Rob Beck. I am posting an opinion based solely on experience with their product. It works.

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo

you sure it isn't because of your turbos?

i find it funny that you take time to post on this thread while you keep on dodging all the questions on your own turbo thread.

 

[Cswihart]

At least someone gets the design improvements considering the entire picture, appreciate the honest feedback.

Anyway considering the time put into this thread I've decided to revisit current production costs on these drains and see we can do quite a bit better on the a la carte pricing and thus the new price for the set is $190. If some feel these are now worthwhile then great or if they still think it is a rip off then that is ok as well.

Rob

Rob, Thank you for revisiting the price of these drains. I know there is a lot of time and engineering that goes into these kinds of things, but these are now at a better price point for me to consider purchasing. What is best way to purchase these at the adjusted price? They are still showing $225 On your website?

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Rob, Thank you for revisiting the price of these drains. I know there is a lot of time and engineering that goes into these kinds of things, but these are now at a better price point for me to consider purchasing. What is best way to purchase these at the adjusted price? They are still showing $225 On your website?

The website updates are never fast so it'll probably be changed in 1-12 months lol, things move too fast to look back at the small stuff. At any rate if ever have a question simply shoot us an email sir and we can get it done around it, the email is [email protected]

Thanks,
Rob