Going built engine

[Montegobluee92]

Its about time to keep dumping money into my E92. I know it makes more sense to just get a b58 or S55 but I love the body style and handling of my E92. Ive already had the car 5 years and will continue ownership. Its current setup is PTE6466 running 28 to 30 psi, port injection(750cc injectors), dual walbro 450s, 3.5" exhaust, and all the supporting mods. I'm looking to take it a step further and put in forged rods and pistons. I'm also looking to close the deck on the block (Epoxy or insert), swap in a ford 8.8, 8HP swap, and run an N53 head with cams/valve springs. The turbo is going up in size and id like to make sure it stays together. Im looking to build the block to handle 1000hp but not make 1000hp. The goal is 850-900 on E85. The car is being set up for roll racing events/ 1/2 mile racing.

My question(s) are,

Any recommendations on pistons and rods?

Anybody have experience here with closing the deck with epoxy or would the insert be better suited?

Anybody here running the N53 head? I've found fairly limited information there other than hydra performance posts.

 

[SlowE93]

Not sure but I think @ShocknAwe messed with N53 head. Could be mistaken was a while back.

 

[CalvinNismo]

If you’ve got an 8-bolt you might be okay with the epoxy closed deck, but you may be better off going with the insert and sleeves if you want to do things properly (regardless of 8-bolt or 6-bolt). I know this is an N55, but the block is very similar to the 6-bolt N54 block.

 

[wheela]

If you’ve got an 8-bolt you might be okay with the epoxy closed deck, but you may be better off going with the insert and sleeves if you want to do things properly (regardless of 8-bolt or 6-bolt). I know this is an N55, but the block is very similar to the 6-bolt N54 block.

I wonder what the elastic modulus of that epoxy is? Unless it is close to that of the sleeves and surrounding block material, seems like it would be more placebo than functional. I also wonder how it impacts heat transfer through the top of the cylinder walls where the epoxy is? I haven't looked into epoxy closed deck, but seems like it could be bad idea, depending on the physical properties of the epoxy?

 

[Neophyte]

If you haven't already check out Darke Peak on youtube has Australia’s Fastest RWD BMW
tons of testing and info on the epoxy closed deck N54

 

[wheela]

If you haven't already check out Darke Peak on youtube has Australia’s Fastest RWD BMW
tons of testing and info on the epoxy closed deck N54

Thanks I'll have to check out some of those videos when I get a chance

 

[ShocknAwe]

Not sure but I think @ShocknAwe messed with N53 head. Could be mistaken was a while back.

This is correct. N53 ported head and cams. It works.

 

[Montegobluee92]

This is correct. N53 ported head and cams. It works.

Awesome, im glad to hear it works. What sort of modification is necessary to get the head to bolt on and everything else to function properly?

 

[Montegobluee92]

If you’ve got an 8-bolt you might be okay with the epoxy closed deck, but you may be better off going with the insert and sleeves if you want to do things properly (regardless of 8-bolt or 6-bolt). I know this is an N55, but the block is very similar to the 6-bolt N54 block.

That was an interesting watch. It wouldn't make a ton of sense to spend the money on quality forged parts and then try to save a few hundred on epoxy vs the insert.

 

[ShocknAwe]

Awesome, im glad to hear it works. What sort of modification is necessary to get the head to bolt on and everything else to function properly?

Drilled decked port matched. Then you need custom turbo folds to match the new head exhaust ports. Bought it complete from Hydra Performance.

 

[Montegobluee92]

Drilled decked port matched. Then you need custom turbo folds to match the new head exhaust ports. Bought it complete from Hydra Performance.

Sounds easy enough. I had found a little more info on the swap through various forums. I priced out sourcing the head, sending it to a machine shop, getting cams, etc. It makes a lot more sense just to buy it done already. Way less of a headache that way too.

 

[Klos]

Its about time to keep dumping money into my E92. I know it makes more sense to just get a b58 or S55 but I love the body style and handling of my E92. Ive already had the car 5 years and will continue ownership. Its current setup is PTE6466 running 28 to 30 psi, port injection(750cc injectors), dual walbro 450s, 3.5" exhaust, and all the supporting mods. I'm looking to take it a step further and put in forged rods and pistons. I'm also looking to close the deck on the block (Epoxy or insert), swap in a ford 8.8, 8HP swap, and run an N53 head with cams/valve springs. The turbo is going up in size and id like to make sure it stays together. Im looking to build the block to handle 1000hp but not make 1000hp. The goal is 850-900 on E85. The car is being set up for roll racing events/ 1/2 mile racing.

My question(s) are,

Any recommendations on pistons and rods?

Anybody have experience here with closing the deck with epoxy or would the insert be better suited?

Anybody here running the N53 head? I've found fairly limited information there other than hydra performance posts.

This should be your engine build breakdown

Mahle Powerpak Performance Pistons (Don"t go with anything else its all junk, these are cheap and fantastic)
Boostline rods (These things are absolutely beasts)
HCR Headstuds (4 corners drilled out 11mm)
Cometic Headgasket or OEM
ACL Rod Bearings + ACL Main Bearings
Stock head is fine or you can go the extra mile and do upgraded valve springs (Port the Intake and Exhaust side for more flow, a lot of people forget the exhaust side is just as important.
Go with an epoxy closed deck, CSS is pointless.
GO FULL DI DELETE DO NOT FUCK AROUND, Maxxecu or Emtron Standalone

 

[Dumaurier7]

This should be your engine build breakdown


Go with an epoxy closed deck, CSS is pointless.
GO FULL DI DELETE DO NOT FUCK AROUND, Maxxecu or Emtron Standalone

Care to elaborate?

 

[Klos]

Care to elaborate?

On what part?

 

[shushikiary]

On my built motor I have JE 2618 pistons, turbo tuff H beam forged rods, king bearings, full headgames stage 3 head (full port, ferrea oversized valves, ferrea springs, shrick high lift cams), CSS closed deck insert, GTX3582R gen II turbo, VTT spline lock, running 55lbs port injection with motiv reflex, straight E85 with 2x walbro 450 (custom motor drivers using an arduino, I target 90 PSI, with precision raceworks filter side replacement and larger fuel lines), stock HPFP and index 12 injectors. Single bank post turbo O2, speed tech bottom mount kit. ARP proper length 11mm head studs.

Turbo hits 28 psi mid range, but won't give me more than 23-24 PSI at redline... maxing out the flow of that turbo (85-90 lbs/min).... thing works great.

Stock manual transmission, motiv ceramic twin plate clutch, XI with stock diffs and axles... solid motor mounts and transfer case mount keep the front diff alive (and getting off of it if you have wheel hop!).

 

[Dumaurier7]

On what part?

Only the unsubstantiated parts!...............but wait! your entire post is unsubstantiated!!

 

[langsbr]

Only the unsubstantiated parts!...............but wait! your entire post is unsubstantiated!!

Agreed. I would say don't use Aliexpress pistons - I've never seen a 2618 there, its all 4032. JE, Mahle, and every other name brand piston maker uses 2618 so why are all of them junk besides Mahle?

As for rods, the Manley turbo tuff I beams are really nice. Nothing against the Wiseco Boostlines, there's just more than one way to skin a cat.

I can't agree yet on the DI delete. Yes, I understand the potential benefit of avoiding the piezo injectors, but I bought this car because it was direct injected, and not everyone wants to go standalone. The Nexys di delete has yet to prove itself trouble free. Hearing a lot of issues about getting the car to even idle.

 

[ShocknAwe]

Don't fuck around, just completely fuck your car up.

 

[shushikiary]

When I built my LS 408 stroker for my jeep I did a lot more reading on forged pistons before I bought a set of wiseco 2618 4.030 -3cc pistons, and man is there a ton of BS on the internet. Reality is there are a decent number of stock cars that shipped with 2618 pistons in them, and easily make it 200k miles before rebuilds. The 4032 and other alloys don't heat expand as much, but they are also a little more likely to crack under power. 2618 at 4.030 diameter expand about 4 thou between cold and hot, which is why those pistons called for a bore that was 4 thou greater than the piston diameter (measured at correct spot in the skirt, as they are actually oval, not a circle). All 8 pistons measured 4.027, so all 8 bores are 4.031, and the machine shop got them all within 0.5 thou the entire length of the bore.

The catch is that on cold start, as the piston warms up, you can get piston slap, especially on a stroker crank, but the piston slap goes away once the piston warms up, and that's even with the accuracy we got above. So the key with the forged pistons is to make sure you let them get to operating temp before you push on them. The hypereutectic pistons call for a much tighter bore tolerance (like 1 thou instead of 4), so they are much less likely to have cold piston slap, as they don't expand anywhere near as much with heat, but they also won't survive power as well as they are more brittle and more likely to crack. Now pistons slap is much more prevalent on a v8 than a straight 6, and more prevalent on a stroker crank than a stock stroke crank, so on an N54 with stock stroke, it's really not an issue.

So as long as your ring gaps are set right for you power level, so you don't blow ring lands with rings touching at high load, your bore/hone are good to match your piston, and your tolerances match your piston manufacturers requirements, why not go for the 2618 for peace of mind?

This also tells you that you need a QUALITY piston manufacturer. When I went to measure bob weight for the 408 every piston from wiseco weighed within 1.4 grams of each other, and as stated the diameter of the pistons were all within 0.5 thou and at 4.027... those details are important. If you buy a set of pistons and they are off by say 2 thou on a 4032 alloy and your builder does not properly measure each piston and hone the bore to that piston size, you've got a big problem. So personally I'd NEVER buy a cheap set of pistons, rods, or bearings. Heck the most expensive coating king bearings for that engine were only 80 dollars more a set than the non coated ones, so why wouldn't I get the super dooper ones? This level of accurate manufacturing, including a good set of callies H beam rods, let me get the bob weights all within 0.4 grams of each other... my 408 stroker runs 7k rpm VERY smoothly.

This is also why I would never ball hone... this isn't the 1960's where you can be off by a few thou and be ok for a good number of miles.

 

[Dumaurier7]

I can't agree yet on the DI delete. Yes, I understand the potential benefit of avoiding the piezo injectors, but I bought this car because it was direct injected, and not everyone wants to go standalone. The Nexys di delete has yet to prove itself trouble free. Hearing a lot of issues about getting the car to even idle.

DI is specifically designed to be used with high and very high compression engines, especially the turboed ones for emissions as well as it allows the performance of a NA motor when not in boost due to the high CR but it mitigates against detonation as the fuel is only injected when needed, this is done just before TDC is reached and can only be done directly and with high pressure. If you delete it you will have to drop the CR in your motor which will be costly and nonsensical in my humble opinion. I am building my N55 now as well and I’ve decided to do DI ONLY there are now soo many upgrade paths available for DI that I think it would be dumb to eliminate it and go backwards.