Fire Suppression System

[doublespaces]

I made a post about fire extinguishers before in the E9X section regarding under seat extinguishers but lets be honest, that is unlikely to save your vehicle from an engine fire. It is much more likely that you'll pull over after you see flames coming from the engine bay and by the time you are pulled over and get out, the heat will probably be too much to even open the hood not to mention get it extinguished in time.

One of my biggest fears is losing the car to a fire, there is no bigger total loss than that. When we consider the amount of money we've put into these machines, it almost seems unwise to not take some precautions against preventing complete losses such as this where you stand helplessly while your car slowly burns to the ground.

I have absolutely no experience with this, but has anyone considered installing a fire suppression system with nozzles into the engine bay? I know there are many different types of chemicals/compounds that can be used which are safe or not safe on electrical components, however I'd like to know if anyone has any experience or thoughts on such a system?

It seems like you can buy a decent setup at various places like BW or Jegs for under $500. If it is feasible, it seems like a reasonable expense?

Stroud 9302: 9302 Fire Suppression System 5 lb. - JEGS

Fire Suppression System

www.jegs.com

Kit Includes:

• 5lb Bottle
• Bottle Head
• Installation Mounts & Clamps
• 8' Cut-To-Fit Pull Cable
• (2) 2-Port (or 120°) Nozzles
• (1) 6-port (or 360°) Nozzle
• All Necessary Fittings
• 12.500 ft. Of Tubing

Here are a couple motivational videos.

Skip to 5:30

 

[The Convert]

Would be interesting. You thinking of mounting a couple 360 nozzles on underside of hood and a couple more lower down on shock towers?

 

[iminhell1]

Even with the suppression system, you're not going to just fix melted things and move on. It makes such a mess everywhere that you'll basically have to remove and clean everything.

AND, just because you smash the fire button doesn't mean it cuts fuel, spark, electricity at the same time. To do the system right it needs to be a full kill switch in conjunction with the fire button. It's a bit more complicated than a bolt in $500 kit.

 

[doublespaces]

Even with the suppression system, you're not going to just fix melted things and move on. It makes such a mess everywhere that you'll basically have to remove and clean everything.

AND, just because you smash the fire button doesn't mean it cuts fuel, spark, electricity at the same time. To do the system right it needs to be a full kill switch in conjunction with the fire button. It's a bit more complicated than a bolt in $500 kit.

I'm not really sure what your point is. Are you saying that a car is safer without a fire suppression system?

Would be interesting. You thinking of mounting a couple 360 nozzles on underside of hood and a couple more lower down on shock towers?

I've never thought it out, I just know some exotics have them and that firing the system generally ruins things but it is better than your whole car burning to the ground, potentially with you inside.

I think the better question, does anyone have experience with installing a fire suppression system? Many people bring fire extinguishers, but have not seen anyone do something like this to the engine bay. 500 bucks is really not a lot of money for something which has the potential to save most of your car. Most people are completely helpless, there has to be a way to prepare for that.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Not a bad idea, especially as things get turned up.

Remember if you ever see flame (or even just a lot of smoke) and go back to the car to grab your extinguisher.... close the hood first. You don't need to give the potential fire extra air.

Chris

 

[scrllock]

Tend to see more of these on m3 forums, I think bimmerworld sells a few systems.

Ideally you'd have an electrical kill switch too, but if you're worrying about that, you're likely involved in a motorsports org that will have specific guidelines on when and how to set this up.

For example, SCCA rules are pretty strict on fire suppression, even if you're just running modified lines (like anyone with an ethanol sensor) they require both a full flame suit and fire suppression, but allow for just a mounted bottle inside the cabin. Between meth, PI, extra fuel pumps, aftermarket controller wiring, it'd be crazy to not keep at least a bottle in the car. Curious to see what you come up with.

 

[iminhell1]

I'm not really sure what your point is. Are you saying that a car is safer without a fire suppression system?

The car isn't the concern. The occupants are.
I know you want to save your baby. But it's replaceable, as expensive as it will be. Insure it accordingly.

Fire systems aren't meant to save the car. They are meant to give a bit more time to exit the vehicle. Things like ralley cars with difficult to exit cages for example. Or any car with welded doors where your option is a window exit.

If you look at your 2 example videos, the typical low buck fire system would have done little. The fire started below the car, oil leak on a downpipe, overheated cat?
For something like that you'd need more than just am engine bay fogger.



The racing I want to build for only requires a mounted extinguisher. But full fire suit and cert cage. High speed crashes are more common than fire is why.

 

[doublespaces]

The car isn't the concern. The occupants are.
I know you want to save your baby. But it's replaceable, as expensive as it will be. Insure it accordingly.

Fire systems aren't meant to save the car. They are meant to give a bit more time to exit the vehicle. Things like ralley cars with difficult to exit cages for example. Or any car with welded doors where your option is a window exit.

If you look at your 2 example videos, the typical low buck fire system would have done little. The fire started below the car, oil leak on a downpipe, overheated cat?
For something like that you'd need more than just am engine bay fogger.



The racing I want to build for only requires a mounted extinguisher. But full fire suit and cert cage. High speed crashes are more common than fire is why.

Saving yourself is priority #1 and those videos were merely examples of bmw fires I found by doing a youtube search. For a number of years, the primary cause of fire on these cars was related to methanol. We have plenty of fueling modifications under the hood. Maybe you don't, but with all the port injection, flex fuel sensors, overdrive units with dual fuel lines and so on, there are plenty of under hood opportunities for fire.

I just had a situation a couple weeks ago where my quick disconnect fitting happened to rub just perfectly on the motor mount and it actually unscrewed the fitting and fuel started spraying all over my starter. The car started to run rough so I shut it down and put the car in neutral and tried to start it again then started smelling fuel. Thankfully the starter didn't ignite the fuel or I'd be pretty sour right now.

Car fires in the racing world might be chalked up as part of the activity. But for those who don't race on a sponsorship or competitively, we can still value what we have and want to improve the chances we save as much as we can including ourselves. When everything is perfect, perhaps this isn't thought of as necessary but freak accidents, installation errors, back luck and other things do happen. By the way, my car has had full coverage since the day I got it and paid cash, but to say 'oh let it burn you have insurance' is counter productive in my opinion. Its only 500 bucks, it isn't going to hurt your odds.

I appreciate your feedback but mainly I just want to learn about how to install these things.

 

[mcleansc]

Not a bad idea, especially as things get turned up.

Remember if you ever see flame (or even just a lot of smoke) and go back to the car to grab your extinguisher.... close the hood first. You don't need to give the potential fire extra air.

Chris

I'd recommend leaving it open. A fire spreads a lot faster when set in a confined space (against walls and a low ceiling). The difference in the supply of air with it open Vs closed would be trivial, but the radiated heat, causing other components to potentially ignite, and fire spread from the seat would be worse if you left it closed. Then there's having to open a potentially very hot bonnet again when you've got your equipment. Although tbh the difference in radiated heat would probably also be trivial given how quickly you'd get your equipment.

As for the extinguishing media I'd use AFFF foam. It's effective against fuel fires, and has cooling properties. But it may damage electrical components and it's a tad messy. Why not have the FE-36, operated from the cab for initial knock back, then have a AFFF with nozzle in an easy to reach location, allowing you to get out, assess where the the seat of the fire may be and carefully apply the foam?

 

[Nugs]

I looked into one of these but didn't pull the trigger for some reason.
Works automatically and doesn't leave a mess like powder systems.

 

[NoGuru]

I'm kind of surprised more cars don't come equipped with fire suppression. Specifically E vehicles.

 

[doublespaces]

I'm kind of surprised more cars don't come equipped with fire suppression. Specifically E vehicles.

I'm curious if it has anything to do with the import of pressurized vessels. I wasn't able to get the BMW fire extingusher shipped from Europe(while filled) because it requires a special license and handling.

 

[SJ_1989]

I'm curious if it has anything to do with the import of pressurized vessels. I wasn't able to get the BMW fire extingusher shipped from Europe(while filled) because it requires a special license and handling.

Could be. We (i.e. my company) has to obtain licenses based on country/region when we ship mobile construction machines (and production parts from suppliers to our factory) as the brake system uses accumulators (hydraulic equivalent to a capacitor) to store oil for the brakes. These accumulators are pressurized with nitrogen. All the service replacement accumulators are nitrogen free to avoid licenses and they are charged by the installer when the time comes.

There's also likely no recognized standard that requires vehicles to have a fire suppression system. Or there is and U.S. at least doesn't think it's important enough to be required. I know this is the case for mobile construction equipment fire suppression systems, however, OEM's and aftermarket sell systems to a lot of the landfills.

 

[iminhell1]

 

[The Convert]

that car just did not want to be put out...damn.

 

[NoQuarter]

Shows application in an engine bay

 

[doublespaces]

I've seen that before. Pretty interesting considering it is self-sufficient and activates itself.