Boost target max 21psi. 3.5bar map configuration problem?

[p1nk3y]

Hello,

I've been trying out some new maps with my new hybrid turbos, but I can't get my boost target over 21psi, even if i set my Load to 250. I'm new to mapping, but I think it may be related to my 3.5bar map sensor, because I'm not 100% sure how to configure it. I read in RFP Tunings Hybrid OTS map, that you should choose "stock" map sensor in the MHD menu, but what purpose does the option serve if you shouldn't pick it?
I've tried adjusting the MAP Voltage only, adjusting MAP Conversion Voltage (custom) and MAP conversion (custom), and adjusting both, but nothing seemed to help. Every option was tried with MDH map sensor option "stock" and "3.5bar". I've read multiple threads, but I couldn't get it to work.

I attached the custom 3.5bar values I filled in.

My questions are as follows:
- What are the correct values for the MAP tables (shown in picture) when running a 3.5bar map?
- What map sensor do I have to pick in the MHD menu?
- Is the boost target calculated by the load values only?

Thanks in advance!

 

[mj6234]

Can you post a log? If you enter the values in the MAP Conversation (Custom) table as you have shown, you do not need to check any of the flashtime options in the app.

Are you flashing the RFP basemap for hybrids? Or did you tune your on your own?

Please makes sure to log WGDC base, WGDC after PID, WGDC Bank 1 %, boost setpoint, p factor.

Boost target is calculated by a number of things, load is the main driver but there are other things (ambient temp, boost request offset, VANOS, and probably about 20 other things).

 

[p1nk3y]

Thanks for you answer.

What values should I put in the "stock" MAP tables? Shouldn't the custom MAP tables have the max. value at 50psi instead of 37psi?

I don't have a log with boost setpoint and p factor at hand, I will do some logging tomorrow. The current log is attached.

I am using RFP's hybrid basemap and I kept nearly all of his setting. I am mainly playing around with the load, but the boost target isn't changing. I don't reach my boost target anyways, but I suspect thats another (wgdc) issue, that I want to fix later. I got 19t turbos, and the basemap is for 17t turbos, so that could be a reason as well. My main problem is the boost target.

https://datazap.me/u/philn54/19tv3?log=1&data=3-17-21

 

[mj6234]

Well 3.5bar is a little misleading since ambient pressure is 14.7psi. That means you get 2.5bar above that, which is around 36psi. You can leave the stock 2 cell MAP table alone. If the 3 cell is filled out, MHD will use those values. Your values look like they will work fine based on what I use.

I will take a look at the log here in a little bit and give feedback. I dont think this could result in the issue you are seeing, but wanted to confirm that you have the MBoost license?

 

[p1nk3y]

At least I know, that the map sensor values are most likely not the problem.
If I select the 3.5bar sensor in the MHD app, it auto-fills the custom MAP tables?

Yes, I purchased a MBoost license.

My wgdc setting may be wrong (too low), but I don't think that affects my boost target.
I've seen logs with a load of 170 making 28psi, and I don't really understand how that's possible.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it! I searched every thread I could find for quite some time now, but couldn't figure it out.

 

[mj6234]

Are you 100% sure you dont have a boost leak or tired solenoids? Looks like it is taking until around 4000 to hit 14 or so psi in what I'd assume is 3rd gear? You can also see a pretty big gap between load actual and load requested (10+ points).

If you dont have a boost leak, you need to add more to WGDC base. You can read V8Bait's tuning guide, but you can look at your log and see that your PID is probably going to the extreme to try and pull WGDC up. I have had the best luck keeping WGDC base % around 3-5% below the value for WGDC after PID. You can see your values are often 8-10% below.

datazap.me | PhilN54 | 19t_v3

datazap.me

Here is one of my logs for reference (after about 25 revisions while I learned). You can see what I mean about WGDC and relationship to WGDC after PID.

datazap.me | mj6234 | Log 1621121311

datazap.me

 

[mj6234]

At least I know, that the map sensor values are most likely not the problem.
If I select the 3.5bar sensor in the MHD app, it auto-fills the custom MAP tables?

Yes, I purchased a MBoost license.

My wgdc setting may be wrong (too low), but I don't think that affects my boost target.
I've seen logs with a load of 170 making 28psi, and I don't really understand how that's possible.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it! I searched every thread I could find for quite some time now, but couldn't figure it out.

I'd fix your WGDC and/or leak. You can manipulate things in the file to create what seem to be odd relationships between load and boost target (whether it be the voltage scaling or BRO, or something else). Getting a boost target of 28 @ 170 load just means you are trading table resolution for maybe tuning convenience? 170 load for me is 18-20psi, but like I said it depends on some other things.

 

[p1nk3y]

I replaced my solenoids recently and checked my boost piping. I'll preassure test them when I'll get the chance to.

My next iteration of the map was adding more wgdc as well. I was going to up the wgdc adder. Is it better to up the wgdc base?

What does BRO stand for?
Whats best practice to up the boost? Intinctively I'd say increasing the load target is the best option.

 

[mj6234]

Personally, I tuned mainly in base initially and then adjusted adder a little later. Adder has more of a global impact as it increases WGDC by MAF (and ignores setpoint). I mainly used it to increase WGDC at higher WGDC MAF levels (I rescaled my base/adder table to go up to 400 since I have hybrids as well).

As for your other question, I am not sure that I have a great answer for you. I honestly think it may. You are far from load requested, and I am wondering if it lands on a lower target because of that. The way to to get closer to load req is more WGDC.

I didnt really try to increase load while I was tuning until my WGDC was more in the ballpark of what was needed. After I got my base table setup properly, increasing load definitely increased target. Someone else might be able to weigh in on that question.

The only problem I had with target was around 3000-3500 RPM. I needed to raise target as I was exceeding it, and ended up lowering the values in Boost Request Offset (from say 0.900 to 0.800). This raised target, but also lowered the amount of fuel requested (as it seems like this is a VE table).

 

[RSL]

Load limit by gear is obviously set in those logs. Load (and boost target) won't increase past those.

 

[p1nk3y]

@mj6234 I will increase my wgdc base, log the results, and will see from there.

@RSL You're right! I don't get, how how I missed that! I will clear the Load Target by Gear map. That should do the trick.

Thank you guys so much!

 

[RSL]

No problem. It should require a long/full write to actually get rid of it since it's a logic change, so be prepared for it.

 

[mj6234]

Damn, good call RSL. I havent used that before, but that does make sense!

 

[p1nk3y]

Testing was a success (more or less)! I am making around 24psi, boost target was around 28-29psi (oops), but boost ceiling is set to 24.7psi (1.7bar)
So I think increasing my wgdc base by around 5% helped, because I am very close to my 24.7psi limit.
My wgdc base still is a lot lower than the wgdc after pid, so I should increase my wgdc base further, so the pid doesn't have to correct so much, right?

The wgdc my wastegates are actually making is wgdc after pid %, or wgdc bank 1 %? Because if it is wgdc bank 1 %, I am maxed out at 75% wgdc, which is a bit too high, and indicates a boost leak, right?

datazap.me | PhilN54 | v4_2

datazap.me

 

[mj6234]

WGDC Bank 1 % is what is being applied. I believe it goes:

Base+Adder->PID->WDGC Bank 1 %. - Edited to fix.

I think a leak is likely somewhere. Not sure if you can run a pressure test, but I think that would be a good step to rule out. I believe your turbos are bigger than mine, and I'd guess I'd make 24psi around 65% on WDGC Bank 1 %.

And your comment around base being close to the after PID value - yes that is my understanding. Don't want PID to be working overly hard, but having it work WGDC slightly upward seems to give the best result. You can raise the WGDC Ceiling as well if you are truly capped with no issue, but I suspect you are not.

 

[p1nk3y]

Okay, from what I've read I thought it went:
Base + Adder -> WDDC Bank 1 % -> WGDC after PID %
(not sure on the last 2 ones, but maybe someone can confirm the correct order)

I will try to preassure test my system in the next time. I think it's a good idea to cap the wgdc at 70% till then, to stop the turbos from overspinning.
Not sure what else could cause the problem, nearly everything else is replaced.

In the mean time I'll decrease my load, and increase my wgdc, to get the wgdc base close to pid.

 

[mj6234]

From V8Bait's guide. The guide is downloadable from the Github with the XDFs in there.

Jake Y spells it out here. You were right on adder.

Technical - Explaining WGDC values

Can someone define the WGDC values, and explain where they come from or how they are computed? I'm particularly curious about what values are inputs to the WGDC after PID calculation? WGDC base value % WGDC after pid % WGDC bank 1 % As a for instance, WGDC after pid % seems to be drawn to the...

www.spoolstreet.com

 

[Jeffman]

Increasing Adder is how I got my stockers to go to 23-24 psi … whether or not that’s wise is a whole other thread.