Technical BL Coil Investigation and Solution

[SlowE93]

+2

Second or third thread, looks like they sticking to user buying cheap coils story.

Yeah man, all bullshit. I have an order #, pics of when I unboxed all parts received. Cell phone takes date and time in the details of the photo. Install pics, a video, etc. IF I am using cheap, aftermarket coils, then the supplier BL is at fault since he sent them to me in my order. Stupid to even think I would pay 500.00 for a kit including coils and I went out and bought cheap aftermarket coils to replace them with ? As I have said before, I have ELDOR coils supplied with my so called plug n play kit. The metal shield is the MAIN issue as op pointed out and I already knew, do not allow flex to sit all the way down. Also the diameter at the bottom end. If a regular socket doesnt fit (we need thin wall) then impossible that the coils would fit straight out the box. Another member pointed out that even IF , they were aftermarket, they still need the same dimensions to fit properly on the actual vehicle (R8) they were designed for. If not, they would not sell as they would not fit. So to summarize, this is all BULLSHIT and EXCUSES and Im glad people are starting to see what I saw when I tried helping other members with this issue.

 

[Maximum96]

I too have the coils that came with the BL kit...It is amazing that even though the coils do not seat fully and many of us, including me have never had misfiring problems even with increasing the gap, the main problem is the shielding on the R8 coils, since our VC has the shielding built in. Just waiting on people's reviews after nodding their coil packs is there an evidently increase of performance in any way?!

 

[MDORPHN]

FWIW, I had my 500+ whp car on track -- shifting at or near redline -- for four days before the misfire appeared on the 5th day.

As mentioned earlier, I have been running with a .028" gap since going with the BL coils. With the coils now properly seated on the plug, I should now be able to go with a larger gap. At least in theory, this should lead to improved flame propagation and a bit more power and fuel mileage.

Neil

 

[SlowE93]

I too have the coils that came with the BL kit...It is amazing that even though the coils do not seat fully and many of us, including me have never had misfiring problems even with increasing the gap, the main problem is the shielding on the R8 coils, since our VC has the shielding built in. Just waiting on people's reviews after nodding their coil packs is there an evidently increase of performance in any way?!

shoot me your # and Ill send you before and after logs. As I said, the coils WORK.

 

[veer90]

Great work. Was there any followup from bimmerlife after your findings? Curious to hear what they had to say about it.

He's probably just going to silently take note of the findings and incorporate them into his next batch. Basically you did all the legwork for him without nary a thanks or acknowledgement. Typical vendor behavior these days.

 

[fmorelli]

I too have the coils that came with the BL kit...It is amazing that even though the coils do not seat fully and many of us, including me have never had misfiring problems even with increasing the gap, the main problem is the shielding on the R8 coils, since our VC has the shielding built in. Just waiting on people's reviews after nodding their coil packs is there an evidently increase of performance in any way?!

Yes, but electricity simply takes the path of least resistance. There simply is no other place of less resistance than the jump from from coil terminal sheath over the air to the male spark plug terminal.

Eventually the insulation in the coil should wear. Also the coil actually has a button is inside the terminal sheathed and makes contact with the spark plug terminal. None of that is in play. The spark simply arcs across the air space between the terminal sheath and the spark plug terminal.

Filippo

 

[fmorelli]

He's probably just going to silently take note of the findings and incorporate them into his next batch. Basically you did all the legwork for him without nary a thanks or acknowledgement. Typical vendor behavior these days.

I actually don't think this is possible, but maybe you have an idea of how that could be done? The R8 coil is manufactured by Eldor and simply is not made to work. Part of the reason for my posting all the detail was to to help others, and part of the reason was to clearly demonstrate that the coils are not physically designed to work with the n54. I don't see how the product component would be practically modified for sale, aside from doing a lot of surgery on the coil packs. By the way we actually tried to remove the metal sheath on the coil pack since it is unnecessary given that the n54 valve cover already have the insulating sheaths installed. But we were unable to get the sheet to release from the red base.

Filippo

 

[ninjacoupe]

So I went back out to check into this even deeper as I have an engine on a stand currently with some spare BL R8 coils and here is what I found. As stated in this thread to get the coils to click onto the plug you need to trim the metal shield and rubber nubs just as described. Im actually a bit dumbfounded as I personally felt the huge improvement from this kit over the stock coils. The easiest fix would be a plug tip extender perhaps. I’ll make the changes to my coils either way. Thank you for finding this honestly I would have never thought to look into it based on the performance increases I felt. I’m actually exciting to think there’s even more performance to them.

 

[fmorelli]

You're welcome. Barry Battle and I were surprised too - imagine a BMW 1M turning blistering track times, repeatedly, using the BL coils. We knew others had problems; we just couldn't figure out why it worked so well for us. We figured it out when misfires showed up at the track, and Neil pressed the coils back down. We surmise that the gap got too big as the coils were working their way up. At one point, with thought the solution @doublespaces and @SlowE93 had shown would solve the problem we had found. Turned out, to our surprise as well, there was more to the story. This is why measuring mattered. Solving the problem by caring about the coil head to valve cover distance is side-effect or cosmetics - the issue was what was going on inside the shaft, with the spark plug and coil terminals.

As I mentioned, the "click" also misled us - we thought the click was the coil terminal sheath locking onto the plug. Instead we believe it was the rubber nubs pressing on the valve cover shield that somehow caused the clicking noise.

My Z4 coils will be modified on Friday. After that, our next step is to make a harness with proper connectors, once the PU ones become available.

I'm not sure about the plug tip extender, given the fact that the shaft is not perpendicular to the screw base for the plug - the taller the plug, the more "off-center" it is relative to the shaft. Interesting idea, though. You might try it and report back!

Filippo

 

[V8bait]

Just because it's not clicked on doesn't mean you'll notice misfires initially. PR wires if not fully engaged will pull away from the plug farther than the R8 coil sits unmodified, and still easily fire the plug. You'll eventually start burning the boot around the plug inside the coil until you get a track going to the head instead of through the plug, especially with bigger gaps. It starts at high load and slowly gets worse until it's constant due to a nice conductive track of burnt material. PR gets to this point easy without full engagement, R8 can too but sometimes the coils die first from overheating the secondary and mask the issue. I recommend anyone who had misfires replace the entire coil and check for tracking on the plug, if you find any replace it too. If a R8 coil starts tracking and misfiring, don't expect it to last so just replace it.

I've seen this at the track and dynos on the BL setups with them popping off, so I'm glad you guys found a potential reason. I tell people all the time with both kits you really gotta make sure they are FULLY engaged, it's not as easy as OEM coils for either kit (yet). When they are on they are HARD to get off. Don't expect any more power, wider gap, or fewer timing corrections by fixing this tough. You're just fixing the engagement that would otherwise lead to tracking, misfires, and blown R8 coils.

 

[fmorelli]

so I'm glad you guys found a potential reason. I tell people all the time with both kits you really gotta make sure they are FULLY engaged

I've obviously misunderstood something. Given the measurements presented, how was someone you advised going to make sure BL coils are fully engaged? From what we measured, it is impossible without extensive physical modification to the coil. Is there something we presented which you believe is wrong, or could be different? I also infer this by your mention of this as a "potential reason." If you know something we don't, or have other ideas, please share them.

Thanks,

Filippo

 

[Mikenazz]

Very detailed thread,

I'll be interested to see if pushing the coil down further will have any benefit. I've been running BL coils for a few months now. not 1 misfire, idles smoother ,revs smoother and the coil also sits high. I would of never thought something was potential wrong with the fitment.

The car runs great how it is with no timing drops and happily ran 11.1 @ 130 str8 e85, PI,26 psi.

 

[fmorelli]

I'll be interested to see if pushing the coil down further will have any benefit. I've been running BL coils for a few months now. not 1 misfire, idles smoother ,revs smoother and the coil also sits high.
[...snip...] I would of never thought something was potential wrong with the fitment.

We didn't either - everything was working great. If it was not for a few people posting issues, we wouldn't have known until the 5th track event last week where misfires suddenly started, and pushing the coils back down put them in range to arc back to the spark plugs again lol ...

I'll be interested to see if pushing the coil down further will have any benefit.

By measurement we know that the BL R8 coil button is not connecting to the spark plug. You can push with a sledge hammer and it won't help. You can't get there from here according to the measurements. And by a country mile.

So that means the spark is first jumping from the coil to the spark plug terminal, then from the center electrode to ground electrode. Misfires or not, I cannot see how that helps the well-being of the coil. The second concern is that if one looks at the measurements, the coils just really want to work their way out of the hole (oversized in several places).

And as long as they arc to the spark plug, one will not get misfires I suppose ... kind of like ... as long as the sperm doesn't get to the egg ........

Filippo

 

[V8bait]

I've obviously misunderstood something. Given the measurements presented, how was someone you advised going to make sure BL coils are fully engaged? From what we measured, it is impossible without extensive physical modification to the coil. Is there something we presented which you believe is wrong, or could be different? I also infer this by your mention of this as a "potential reason." If you know something we don't, or have other ideas, please share them.

Thanks,

Filippo

Passive aggressive aside, I tell people that because even in what was previously considered engaged positions they would pop up more and cause issues. Yes yes you made your point with measurements they don't fit well I'm not arguing. But they can still fit bad and worse. Bad being working but still wrong and not engaged, worse being not working at all.

And yes I said potential. I don't own a kit, also did I miss the post where you measured multiple R8 coils from different OEM distributors? Eldor bmw coils fit a little different than Bosch and Delphi and duralast. Maybe they were never engaged at all it seems, and the popping off was more working out to begin with, and the sledge hammer approach only helps wedge them in. I don't want to throw Alex under the bus because it seemed like he tested things pretty well before making the kits, and the general upset here seems exaggerated.

I think this explains a lot, though. From misfires to the failure rate of these in our cars, which I previously attributed to the typical r8 reliability concerns.

 

[The Convert]

Passive aggressive aside, I tell people that because even in what was previously considered engaged positions they would pop up more and cause issues. Yes yes you made your point with measurements they don't fit well I'm not arguing. But they can still fit bad and worse. Bad being working but still wrong and not engaged, worse being not working at all.

And yes I said potential. I don't own a kit, also did I miss the post where you measured multiple R8 coils from different OEM distributors? Eldor bmw coils fit a little different than Bosch and Delphi and duralast. Maybe they were never engaged at all it seems, and the popping off was more working out to begin with, and the sledge hammer approach only helps wedge them in. I don't want to throw Alex under the bus because it seemed like he tested things pretty well before making the kits, and the general upset here seems exaggerated.

I think this explains a lot, though. From misfires to the failure rate of these in our cars, which I previously attributed to the typical r8 reliability concerns.

Glad someone else has had firsthand experience with R8 coil reliability being less than stellar.

 

[V8bait]

Glad someone else has had firsthand experience with R8 coil reliability being less than stellar.

Only on other platforms, I don't have this kit so can't say I have first hand knowledge here only through those I tune, which is a pretty even split between factory coils, BL, and PR. My only first hand with these was on the bench and they exceeded my expectations, but of course the plug was fully engaged there and it wasn't inside an engine so hard to compare. I haven't seen many fail on people I'm tuning but a few, maybe 5 or six between like 3 guys, usually it's harness complaints not coil but with any luck this fix will help.

FWIW the coils I bench tested and toyed with in the car briefly were OEM R8 coils with the shielding removed. Had to remove it to test or the spark would jump to the shield instead of the air gap. That may have been why they seemed to engage fine for me...

 

[Abacus38]

Hence why I went with the PR coil pack. The only headache I hard with them was depinning the factory harness but beside that everything been Gucci!

 

[The Convert]

Only on other platforms, I don't have this kit so can't say I have first hand knowledge here only through those I tune, which is a pretty even split between factory coils, BL, and PR. My only first hand with these was on the bench and they exceeded my expectations, but of course the plug was fully engaged there and it wasn't inside an engine so hard to compare. I haven't seen many fail on people I'm tuning but a few, maybe 5 or six between like 3 guys, usually it's harness complaints not coil but with any luck this fix will help.

FWIW the coils I bench tested and toyed with in the car briefly were OEM R8 coils with the shielding removed. Had to remove it to test or the spark would jump to the shield instead of the air gap. That may have been why they seemed to engage fine for me...

My only experience with them is on my old A4.

 

[STE92]

Wanted to add some pics for those with Bosch unit. Definitely seen a difference on my logs

 

[fmorelli]

What are the Bosch units? Part number? Do you have a few minutes to take a measurement like the one in the photo?

Thanks,

Filippo