Any interest in track-related data logging in MHD?

[Asbjorn]

If interested, please like/agree with this post and/or comment below, and I will forward to MHD.

Basically I would like to use MHD for more advanced data logging on road courses. This is helpful in developing and protecting the car, as well as becoming a better driver. As far as I can tell, the established (and expensive) track data loggers available, only feature some of the channels I want, and are missing wgdc, transmission temp etc that MHD offers. On the other hand, MHD is only missing a few channels to make it usable:

- Steering angle
- Brake pressure
- Temp outside
- Oil pressure (if possible, depending on platform)
- Gyro / G-force data. EDIT: As it turns out it is possible to run the RaceChrono app in the background of MHD.
- Phone GPS (or even Bluetooth GPS data channel). (Dream scenario: an MHD 10hz GPS similar to the dragy box) EDIT: RaceChrono...

I would also like a configurable warning light, similar to the current "shift light" feature, that can be used to warn about coolant temps, going too slow, or basically any channel exceeding a user set value. Ideally I want the whole screen to turn RED and play a sound when one or more user selected channels exceeds a user set value while logging.

I contacted MHD already, and was told that they are not aware of any interest in such channels and features.

 

[Jake@MHD]

following.

 

[doublespaces]

While we are on this subject, could we have a feature added where I can touch a gauge and have an option to reset the peak values? I haven't been logging my car in a while so not sure if that has been added.

 

[Jake@MHD]

While we are on this subject, could we have a feature added where I can touch a gauge and have an option to reset the peak values? I haven't been logging my car in a while so not sure if that has been added.

The new app which brings wifi support has brand new gauges I made. Single tap lets you edit the gauge param currently. Would something like single press to reset min/max, and long press to edit gauge work?

 

[NoQuarter]

@barry@3DM has some good ideas too

 

[RSL]

Allowing a custom external file with user-supplied IDs/translations/conversions to be hooked in for logging through MHD would also be great. I always assumed the pre-defined parameters were either calculated from or read directly a la Ediabas. If so, there are a lot more potentially useful parameters available.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Allowing a custom external file with user-supplied IDs/translations/conversions to be hooked in for logging through MHD would also be great. I always assumed the pre-defined parameters were either calculated from or read directly a la Ediabas. If so, there are a lot more potentially useful parameters available.

We have switched to ram addresses for logging rather than the INPA PIDs as it lets you get access to a ton more things, and also supports new params we add like Flex Fuel for example. I would rather just add some items that are most requested.

 

[RSL]

We have switched to ram addresses for logging rather than the INPA PIDs as it lets you get access to a ton more things, and also supports new params we add like Flex Fuel for example. I would rather just add some items that are most requested.

Ok, that clears that right up, thanks for the info.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Ok, that clears that right up, thanks for the info.

No prob. That said, anything from that list that may be of interest can certainly be logged by ram

 

[RSL]

No prob. That said, anything from that list that may be of interest can certainly be logged by ram

Nice Maybe step 1 is publishing a list of what's available, most probably don't even know what can be had. Only the DME values or are you able to pull other module data at the same time? I could slap a list together unless you have one already.

I don't want to detract too much from Asbjorn's request/thread with just built-in param additions though, some of his are obviously not as simple as adding some definitions.

 

[SJ_1989]

Very much interested in this since my tablet will be serving as the main gauge cluster in the car.

• Expanded inputs to add various inputs like an engine oil pressure sensor
• Ability to choose gauge layout sets (i.e. have one gauge layout for drag racing, time attack, etc and one for cruising to cars and coffee)
• Ability to set rev limiter warning light per gear and have it color coded like aftermarket displays (green-yellow-red-shift!!!)
• Ability to set warning light thresholds for any parameter
• Peak values
• Wifi

 

[aus335iguy]

Yep, Id love to see that particularly the warning light feature. Count me in.

 

[barry@3DM]

I contacted MHD already, and was told that they are not aware of any interest in such channels and features.

This is my personal view/opinion... (This is all from a road course/track perspective)

The advanced data loggers (Aim, Motec, etc) have things that you just simply can't recreate (without a lot of effort/expense). They have phenomenal software and hardware for collecting, configuring, and consuming data.

You can add a huge variety of sensors, automatically log, configure shift lights, warning lights, display lap times, predictive lap timing, the list goes on and on. They have analog outputs as well that can trigger based on a set value of any channel. For example you can turn on a fan when coolant hits X degrees.

The post processing and consumption of the data is the most important part. Beyond the hardware, they have spent years perfecting the software. You can get whatever info you want, pretty much however you want, within minutes of coming off the track. Something you simply can't do with DataZap and to recreate it in excel would take years of developing. You want to know when and more importantly where on the track an action occurred? You are a few clicks away from seeing all of this with graphic track maps, graph stacking and/or overlays, histograms, the list goes on and on. That gives you time to either adjust your driving before the next session or rectify a problem that you otherwise may not have seen until after the weekend is over.

The downside is that these systems don't integrate into the cars beyond what is broadcast over CAN network, specifically the BMW PT CAN. However it is still a ton of info. Brake pressures, ambient temp, steering angle, coolant temp, oil temp, RPM, too much to list. The downfall is they can't log non PT CAN parameters such as WGDC, etc.

To me the strength of MHD is DME coding and logging of intricate engine parameters, for example WGDC. The weakness of MHD is features catered towards road course level data logging and data consumption.

To me the dream scenario is to meld the two strengths. Have MHD take all of its currently logged intricate engine parameters (things not available on BMW PT CAN) and spit it out via a CAN protocol. Then log the CAN output from MHD via a racing data logger in order to use all of its powerful hardware and software capabilities.

But that is me being selfish from a road racer perspective. I'm all for any features they are willing to add and fully support it. Anything to help the community in any way is awesome.

As for their comment that "they are not aware of any interest in such channels and features", this doesn't surprise me AT ALL. We all know the cooling issues with these cars. If that problem was solved (requiring DME work) my belief is you would see a large influx of N54 based cars hitting up road courses. Then the demand for added road course features of MHD would be there.

Barry

 

[aus335iguy]

Issue with the aftermarket is also price. There are CAN loggers you can buy on the cheap from AliExpress but as you’ve said the problem will always be how to view and consume the data. Excel is less than ideal but visualisation tools like power Bi are very rapidly changing that game too. What a time to be alive

 

[NoQuarter]

Issue with the aftermarket is also price. There are CAN loggers you can buy on the cheap from AliExpress but as you’ve said the problem will always be how to view and consume the data. Excel is less than ideal but visualisation tools like power Bi are very rapidly changing that game too. What a time to be alive

The CAN bus is the easy part. Figuring out the addresses and the encoding of the data is the really hard part. Nothing to display without decrypting the data packets - and that is after you figure out what address you are looking at. This can all be purchased from the OEM - last I looked it was $10,000

 

[barry@3DM]

Issue with the aftermarket is also price. There are CAN loggers you can buy on the cheap from AliExpress but as you’ve said the problem will always be how to view and consume the data. Excel is less than ideal but visualisation tools like power Bi are very rapidly changing that game too. What a time to be alive

Totally agree. Those data systems aren't for everybody.

If you have $5000-$8000 tied up in a turbo kit, $1000 in an inter cooler. $1000+ in latest index injectors, $500-$1000 in upgraded fueling, multiple $1000s from all the other stuff like intakes, blow off valves, charge pipes, coils, etc... all of a sudden a $2000 data kit isn't that silly.

I don't look at data kits as just data. I look at them as driver aids, driver tools, development tools, component savers, etc.

If the warning system (driver aid/component saver) keeps me from blowing up a motor from a problem, it pays for itself instantly. Take for example oil pressure. Every time I go to the track there is always some car that looses an oil drain plug, pops an oil cooler hose or something. Happened last weekend at VIR to a Mustang. You would never know until its too late as there isn't an oil pressure sensor on our cars, yes there is a switch that comes on at like 7 PSI but that's not going to save you at 5000+ RPM. I want to know when it drops to 20-30 PSI because if its at 20-30 PSI there is a problem and I can shut it off before damage.

Last year I did the One lap of America. The car had an overboost problem and spiked to 30 PSI. The big red light came on right in front of my face and I lifted immediately and likely saved the motor. IE the data system paid for itself instantly.

Time is money as well. If I can download and analyze a lot of data between sessions because of excellent user friendly software, then I can make adjustments to myself as the driver and to the car. Good value there, I get more out of the weekend. ONE weekend at the track ads up. $300 in hotels, $500 for entry fees, $200+ in travel fuel depending on the event location, it all ads up. Again, $2000 for a tool that will last the life of the car and can then be transferred to the next car is a no brainer.

Again, not for everybody, but when put in perspective it makes sense.

 

[Asbjorn]

I learned today that it is possible to run the RaceChrono android app behind MHD. I believe RaceChrono is the only app that allows this. This means it is already now possible to log gps data together with MHD logging. The data will have to be synchronized manually, but I am deleting "GPS channel" from the list of requested channels.

 

[gmx]

I like this but it is important to keep the distinction between what RaceChrono does and the scope of MHD (basically, engine). It's not MoTeC and probably won't be. All the other stuff I think you can get on a Vbox or AiM logger. Something to make it easy to synchronise would be cool. Say, if you wanted to lateral forces (external input or yaw sensor) vs oil pressure trace.

As for oil pressure, this is going OT... N55 oil pressure "Switch" looks bolt in. If we patch electronics/DME side at least to monitor pressure, that would be awesome and an "easy" failsafe to tick off.

+1 ambient temp.

 

[barry@3DM]

I like this but it is important to keep the distinction between what RaceChrono does and the scope of MHD (basically, engine). It's not MoTeC and probably won't be. All the other stuff I think you can get on a Vbox or AiM logger. Something to make it easy to synchronise would be cool. Say, if you wanted to lateral forces (external input or yaw sensor) vs oil pressure trace.

As for oil pressure, this is going OT... N55 oil pressure "Switch" looks bolt in. If we patch electronics/DME side at least to monitor pressure, that would be awesome and an "easy" failsafe to tick off.

+1 ambient temp.

@gmx... can you expand on the thought of the N55 oil pressure switch? Are you thinking the oil pressure sensor from the volumetric flow control oil pump? That is really interesting!

Wonder if it is 0-5v. One issue on the N54 would be wiring as the N54 oil pressure switch has no reference voltage wiring to the DME. It is just a ground trigger.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Not sure if we could repurpose the current input which is on/off for oil pressure to be able to process 0-5V. Perhaps it would be easier to just replace the current "has / doesn't have" pressure sensor with one that will say it doesn't have pressure at a more useful safety psi.