AD Engineering 4L80E Trans Kit

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
9,052
4,158
0
AZ
Ride
2009 E93 335i
Been waiting on @WedgePerformance to detail his 4L80 journey but figured I'd bring this over from @dmacpro91 at n54tech. Real good stuff here, assuming they can figure out the controller and the stall.

The kit I bought included:
Ford 8.8 Rear
DSS Axles
4L80E w/custom bellhousing
Aluminum driveshaft

Install went pretty smooth. Rear bolted right in and the trans mates up to the engine great. Only modification needed was to cut a little bit out of the tunnel, tweak it, and weld it back in. I'll get pics of this tomorrow. Oh I also needed to have the driveshaft shortened a bit due to me being a 135 instead of a 335, but that was no big deal. The build quality of this kit is absolutely top notch as are all of the products I've received from ADE.

As for the trans controller, I decided to go with the TCI EZ TCU. As we get this project buttoned up I'll provide more info and some videos.

Update 3-15-17:
Car is basically done, just need to wire up the reverse lights. We were able to test it on the rack yesterday and everything is functional (performance mode, manual shifting through all gears, etc.). Ended up needing to add a switch to make the car think the clutch is engaged (for starting). We could have done something like tie it into the brake switch, but I didn't want to chance any weird behavior when brake-boosting. The TCU is mounted behind the AC controls which is a damn near perfect fit. I should be picking it up today. Once I get it back I'll be spending some time getting the gear calculations worked out in the flash so the ECU knows what gear it is in (mainly needed for things like boost limits/gear). In the pic of the 2 switches the red one is the clutch switch and the gray one is for the line lock.

Install notes:
*Use a toggle switch to simulate the clutch signal to the CAS (for starting).

*Leave clutch wiring hooked up so DME doesn't think clutch is always depressed.

*To use paddles, we did a bit of custom wiring in the steering wheel. Up/down shift wires were cut coming out of the back of the steering wheel and that wiring was run to the TCU.

*RPM signal was retrieved through the wire at the OBDII port.

*TPS Signal from DME grey connector position 20.

*Posi-taps make like MUCH easier.

17777004_10103029260659423_187414738_o.jpg
received_10210345782539571.jpeg



So I finally got a chance to get the car to the track, but it is definitely going to take some tweaking to get this working better. Overall best run today was 10.91 @ 128 with extreme throttle closures throughout the entire run (log attached).

First thing is the stall. The current stall in the torque converter is really high and feels loose pretty much all the way to redline and barely drops when shifting. I've spoken with Andy about this and I'll be pulling the torque converter this week to send to him to adjust.

Second thing is the TCM. The EZ TCU was pretty simple to setup/install, but lacks more advanced customization directly through the TCM itself. Basically the torque converter clutch never "locks" when at 100% throttle (no option to set that up through the unit either). There is an extra wire which can be driven to ground to manually override the lockup so I'll be talking to Terry to see if I can control this via the JB4 somehow, but it would be nice to have some options directly through the handheld interface. The other problem this amplifies is overheating. Since the TC never locks up, it generates A LOT of heat throughout the run. I have a more than sufficient trans cooler and still was getting overheating warnings after basically every run. This TCU also lacks any form of true logging so I may end up looking for other options.

Third thing is gear readout. Since the car has to stay coded as a manual and use the "manual" way of calculating gear (basically a formula using road speed, rpm, final ratio, etc), the DME and JB4 have no clue what gear the car is actually in (since all the slip in the torque converter can have the car at the same speed and the same rpm in virtually every gear). This creates issues for things like boost by gear. I've worked out the serial protocol for the EZ TCU and can read the gear parameter so I may end up making a little chip to feed that into the JB4.

As far as the throttle closures, I really need to get my rpm limiter out of the way and just shift it a tad earlier to see if that will clean it up.

Anyway, I feel like once I get these 3 things worked out the car will be incredible. I'll keep this updated as things progress.

IMG_2979 copy_zpsowb9cy6l.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Idahospool

AD-ENG

Corporal
Oct 22, 2016
122
138
0
36
A few things I want to touch on....

First, the stall is way too high and we will be lowering it in Donnie's car. When you build a custom converter like this on an application that is new its an educated guess what the actual stall will be.... in this case it was suppose to be 4k and I think we missed alittle on the loose size.

Next, we have the TCC issue. After talking to Donnie I don't think he was aware at the time the the TCU has the ability to tailor the lockup AND has a forced apply feature. The converter in his car is built to lockup under power (its not a stock econo clutch). After the stall change Im sure he will approach the tcc situation differently as we can do things to that converter that cant be done on stock lockup stuff.

Finally, the heat concern.... I think that will go away on its own with a tighter stall and a more active TCC.

All in all, 10.9 @129 on 22psi with a subpar log is great. These first few changes will take big chips out of that et.
 

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
9,052
4,158
0
AZ
Ride
2009 E93 335i
A few things I want to touch on....

First, the stall is way too high and we will be lowering it in Donnie's car. When you build a custom converter like this on an application that is new its an educated guess what the actual stall will be.... in this case it was suppose to be 4k and I think we missed alittle on the loose size.

Next, we have the TCC issue. After talking to Donnie I don't think he was aware at the time the the TCU has the ability to tailor the lockup AND has a forced apply feature. The converter in his car is built to lockup under power (its not a stock econo clutch). After the stall change Im sure he will approach the tcc situation differently as we can do things to that converter that cant be done on stock lockup stuff.

Finally, the heat concern.... I think that will go away on its own with a tighter stall and a more active TCC.

All in all, 10.9 @129 on 22psi with a subpar log is great. These first few changes will take big chips out of that et.

When do you anticipate having the stall adjusted?
 

AD-ENG

Corporal
Oct 22, 2016
122
138
0
36
The channels needed in the log to make an informed stall change weren't working... Donnie is going to try and get some logs first, then pull the converter and send it to me.

Hopefully soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: doublespaces

101duck

9 Sec Club(N54)
Nov 5, 2016
60
86
55
Straya
Why not put a revmax billet stall in it? You can customize it to each vehicle.

When you are making a custom convertor its already customized for the vehicle. This is a slight error that can be fixed. Not something changing to a different brand convertor requires.


Im keen to see it donny! Mine has a 4k stall and the gear reading on the jb4 is perfect. First gear reads 1 and 2. And second reads 3 and 4.

Does the jb4 log gear at all? Or does it stay at 0? If it stays at 0 its a wiring drama that i also had. Let me know and I'll point out which wire you need to fix!
 

AD-ENG

Corporal
Oct 22, 2016
122
138
0
36
Why not put a revmax billet stall in it? You can customize it to each vehicle.

This is a billet custom converter and is ordered to the customers specs.
Why would I change brand just for a stall change?
When you are making a custom convertor its already customized for the vehicle. This is a slight error that can be fixed. Not something changing to a different brand convertor requires.


Im keen to see it donny! Mine has a 4k stall and the gear reading on the jb4 is perfect. First gear reads 1 and 2. And second reads 3 and 4.

Does the jb4 log gear at all? Or does it stay at 0? If it stays at 0 its a wiring drama that i also had. Let me know and I'll point out which wire you need to fix!
"Gear" will never read right. The DME is coded to be a MT. It uses rpm and right rear speed sensor to calculate gear.... that strategy won't work on a stalled auto.

As soon as he fixes his speed sensor issue he'll be good to go.
 

Erichale77

800 HP Club (N54)
Nov 14, 2016
827
446
30
Clearwater, FL
Ride
07 E92 coupe
I was unaware that your converter was a custom billet one to begin with otherwise i wouldn't of suggested it. My apologies.
 

[email protected]

Sergeant
Platinum Vendor
Jan 23, 2017
460
371
25
This is a billet custom converter and is ordered to the customers specs.
Why would I change brand just for a stall change?

"Gear" will never read right. The DME is coded to be a MT. It uses rpm and right rear speed sensor to calculate gear.... that strategy won't work on a stalled auto.

As soon as he fixes his speed sensor issue he'll be good to go.

For gear the JB4 can read that off the trans computer with a little work. Once his stall is sorted I'll help him figure out what is going on with road speed within the DME. Maybe the DME is not registering it properly because it's waiting for a clutch press? Shrug.
 

101duck

9 Sec Club(N54)
Nov 5, 2016
60
86
55
Straya
For gear the JB4 can read that off the trans computer with a little work. Once his stall is sorted I'll help him figure out what is going on with road speed within the DME. Maybe the DME is not registering it properly because it's waiting for a clutch press? Shrug.

I had to trick the DME into registering the clutch pedal is out before it would read gear.

Mine reads great, and boost by gear works effectively with the JB4.
 

AD-ENG

Corporal
Oct 22, 2016
122
138
0
36
For gear the JB4 can read that off the trans computer with a little work. Once his stall is sorted I'll help him figure out what is going on with road speed within the DME. Maybe the DME is not registering it properly because it's waiting for a clutch press? Shrug.

The 4l80e has an input and output speed sensor. Gear can be easily calculated from these. The 4l80e also has actual gear outputs. There are switchs that indicate gear.

Donnie needs to use the switch on the brake as his "clutch switch"
 

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
9,052
4,158
0
AZ
Ride
2009 E93 335i
What is the price of the 4L80 conversion kit itself? Is the 8.8 rear end required or does a drive shaft for the stock diff come with it?
 

AD-ENG

Corporal
Oct 22, 2016
122
138
0
36
What is the price of the 4L80 conversion kit itself? Is the 8.8 rear end required or does a drive shaft for the stock diff come with it?

Price for the 4l80 kit is $4200. We only support it paired with our Ford 8.8 kit ($3200) as there is no reason to have a 4l80 in front of a stock diff.

The combo purchased together is $6999 ($400 off from from purchasing separately).