Mboost setting

ckh091020

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Sep 1, 2021
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I am seeking help and guidance on how to run INAOS bin above 22psi with M-boost activated, let me start off with my setup and the log and setting I tried so far-

Built internal E60 N54
Factory fuel system with dual fuel pumps(factory EKP drive one pump and 2nd pump driven by PWM controller). Yes I need more fuel , that's another topic
Mboost activated
N20 installed
DCT with GTS M3 firmware.
19t turbo

1st Tune and log ( without Mboost)


Yes, the LPFP PWM need to be adjust for the LP issue , as far as I can see the target boost and actual boost within reasonable range , so I believe the PID working. Fuel trim will also need to be work on, but that's another topic


2nd TUNE - Log and setting ( with M boost)


Active Mboost by input MAP conversion setting, lower the Load Target/ AT ( logged and monitor load/psi relation) , start off ignition timing and WGDC(based) low until I get control of it , rescale the timing to provide more resolution, Load Target Per Gear and Boost Limited Multiplier Per Gear are all zero

Beside everything I mention above, everything else on 2nd tune remain the same ( VANOS, TQ LIMIT , FUEL SCALE, ETC) I basically transfer everything from 1st tune. However boost target on 2nd tune is not linear, something is limiting the output, I think it has to do with the scaling , I need help on what are the maps needed to rescale, then how about the Torque to Load model ? how is the DCT going to see the actual Torque value?

What is the rail pressure should be when 22psi at manifold?

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ckh091020

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Sep 1, 2021
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Didn’t know it makes a difference I had to reflash the CAS and recode everything anyways. Had 3.92 DINAN diff but GtS didn’t like it so I had to go eith 3.05. Everything else is custom
 

RSL

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Set the boost ceiling back to 1.28 (hex 7FFE to be precise). DCT shifts poorly at WOT if it's even 1 byte higher than stock.

Lower the boost target divisors closer to 1.0 to level out the target curve.

Anything that depends on load or MAF needs to be adjusted when scaling, including load to torque. There is going to be more boost for any given load over about 110-120, so especially higher load areas will need to be adjusted appropriately for the added boost. You'll also want to pay attention to fuel trims. Calculated fuel will be low because calculated air will be low, relative to reality.
 

RSL

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Looks like they finally applied the MBoost program fix for DCT, talk about timing.

Screenshot_20210927-220314.jpg
 

ckh091020

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RSL , Thank you.

What is ideal for HPFP fuel pressure vs manifold pressure? ratio driven? min? max?
 

RSL

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I don't necessarily subscribe to the most is best in HPFP. DME calculates injection events knowing where the intake pressure and HPFP are and works to inject the correct mass regardless of conditions. If anything, raising HPFP astronomically probably reduces injection time/needle lift rather than actually injecting more fuel.

That said, most run as much as they can (3000-3500psi) and maybe 1300-1500psi is considered low. It should definitely never fall below 1000psi.

I keep mine in the 2000-2500psi range generally, but don't run huge boost or anything except pump gas and stock DI.
 
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Jeffman

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One thing to try to get boost above 22psi (this is what I did) in addition to everything else being recommended, especially by RSL who knows more than I do: Crank up your adder to like 2.5 or 3.0. I think that’ll increase the duty cycle on your wastegates to give more boost. A gradual increase is recommended.
 

ckh091020

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Sep 1, 2021
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I went back to the original setup without Mboost active , set boost ceiling to 18psi=1.28 bar , it taper at 18psi throughout the entire RPM range, how will this affect when I active the MBoost? will it get rescale? or there will be no " boost ceiling" ?, How about rest of the limit?

I fixed the LP issue by increasing more PWM(duty) , now HPFP range from 2-3k PSI range. feel safe to play! thanx guys.

With the N20 sensor and Mboost active , the scaling of the load being alter for higher pressure , how is the function apply to Torque? the value should increase in respect to the actual output value? my question is relate to Torque apply to the DCT clutch pressure.






Rich (BB code):
		
 

ckh091020

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I can't tell if I can feel any different for the Boost ceiling at 1.28 vs 1.50 , the graph above is from the 1.28 ceiling. Now with 1.28 for sure it only get can up to 18psi instead of 21psi.
 

RSL

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How it shifts depends on a lot of factors (D/S/M, rpm, torques, etc.). If you download the latest MHD update and flash higher than 1.28 ceiling, it shouldn't be an issue with DCT anymore, but I haven't it tried yet.

Using only the normal 2 column MAP conversion, the N20 sensor alone doesn't really alter anything you need to account for. When you use the 3 column for MAP is when things change.

You can scale and keep 1.28 ceiling. Prior to MHD's just released fix, that's exactly what you had to do for DCT to run more than 18.5psi and keep shifts off long limiters. With usual 3 column scale values and 1.28 ceiling, target would be around 28psi max. With usual 3 column scale values and 1.50 ceiling, it should target around 36psi max and still shift decent now.

Torque actual will effect hydraulic pressure in DCT. The quickest ways to alter torque actual is with Load to torque and torque efficiency divisor (fuel). L2T values are at lambda = 1.0 and TED modifies that value on AFR. You'll have to figure out what loads will be for the boost you're going to run before you can really make adjustments.

If you're trying to convert a old unscaled high boost tune to scaled, you need to get rid of that crazy high load request or you'll run some really high and possibly detrimental boost if the tune/car isn't ready for it. Running that request and 1.50 ceiling with limits out of the way, target is easily going to be in the 30+psi range.
 

ckh091020

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Sep 1, 2021
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RZL, Thanx
Yes, got the latest MHD and flashed , 1.28 it is , set it and leave it.

Load target have been lowered when Mboost is active, it reached 22psi target at 158 load, if it follows the Y=mx+b formula, and rescale value , It came up to be very close. However, I had the Load target in a flat curve, but the log have shown to be different, there must be some sort of adder ( less than 1 ) in place I need to figure out.

WDGC based start off very low, PID probably time out. Play time later, got to have control first!


1633361456089.png


Rich (BB code):
		

If I am understanding this correctly, Tq actual ( output) is driven by the TED & actual load along with other formula , in which the Ecu will be using the wideband to feedback of the actual af and adjust accordingly. I am going ot take some time to read the MSD81 manual.

Is my logic correct ? - Load to Torque is a set of formula in the logic ? then the L2T limiter in check with those relation to control the torque out put? in another word, there shouldn't be a T2L map right?
1633363479916.png


My experience coming from VE and pwm standalone ecu, tq based ecu required to lift the limit ( controllability ) , I believe to understand and how the control works ,the better the system behave.



I thought the reduction by ign off is for DCT? or MHD fix that also?
 

RSL

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L2T will be the base torque actual and it will be altered by TED factors/AFRs. T2L is done as a reverse lookup using the L2T table for a few functions.

There are factors on loads/boost targets. A drop of a few in load isn't a big concern if you're nowhere near it though. I can't remember if I actually raised load target to level it out or not. To get the boost target to have less drop relative to load target though, adjust the target divisors closer to 1.0. Stock, boost target has a factor curve that drops it over the range.


I leave my tq reduction by ignition stock, but you can always try it.
 

tony@codewerx

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did you load xHP ?

if you did - the load scaling used for l2t does it really need that level of changes.
 

ckh091020

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Sep 1, 2021
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did you load xHP ?

if you did - the load scaling used for l2t does it really need that level of changes.
I am using GTS software, need to convert hardware/software before xHP , thought the GTS firmware got the pressure bump, I wish MHD can log clutch pressure and slip. Fuel upgrade first.

I am still playing with what RZL suggested, going to be a learning curve.
 

carabuser

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There's no reason to disable torque reduction by ignition. In fact I'd say there's every reason to keep it enabled as it'll make your car drive better.

That function just allows the ignition angle to be used to manipulate torque output under certain conditions mainly just when letting off the throttle. It also allows the ECU to temporarily exceed the EGT timing limits for shifts but that doesn't happen very often, I think it's only really traction and stability control that can call for such large ignition reductions.

If you disable that then when you take your foot off the pedal the engine will keep targetting the ignition angle in the main timing table rather than retarding ignition in a controlled manner to reduce engine torque.

I'd also warn against using the torque efficiency divisor table. Any changes to that will alter the reported torque in relation to the modelled torque in the ignition routine which means you will see random timing pulls but no limiters as the two values move further out of sync. It also really messes up part throttle timing. The load to torque table is common between all modelled torque so you can manipulate that if you want to increase reported torque for some reason.