Curious if triple barrel shotgun possible?

Reaper0995

Specialist
Jan 10, 2017
69
20
0
Fairly simple question. Is it possible/practical to do a triple barrel shotgun setup? I'm assuming the injectors are the limiting factor, not running out of HPFP on the double barrel setup.
 

aus335iguy

Colonel
Nov 18, 2017
2,090
718
0
Down under
Ride
335i DCT 2009
Readin Tonys post has made me curious about combustion pressures at high HP levels with DI..i dont know if you need to calculate cylinder pressure and increase HP to compensate
 

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
9,052
4,158
0
AZ
Ride
2009 E93 335i
We may need to do more software magic in the DME to keep the injectors open longer if that isn't possible already. I have heard that the injectors fail even with the current double shotgun method when rail pressures are too high, I'd think it is possible, technically, but there are some things that would need worked out I think. Someone would have to confirm the reason for injector failure if any, but it would make sense that if you put too much pressure they would start to have problems.
 

aus335iguy

Colonel
Nov 18, 2017
2,090
718
0
Down under
Ride
335i DCT 2009
Tony has posted inn the other thread that you can have a triple(physically) and they’ve done it by removing the airconditioning... because racecar
 

Reaper0995

Specialist
Jan 10, 2017
69
20
0
Crazy!

img_4551-jpg.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: STE92

[email protected]

Lieutenant
Nov 5, 2016
596
606
55
Bay Area
I literally had no idea you posted this when I posted my photo. We did this a long time ago. Coming up on two years. Its possible, at that point, the stock rail is a restriction, and honestly, the stock injectors prob would not like it. They already get moody at 800+WHP. With a large billet rail, some upgraded injectors, and full control of the injector tables, 1000WHP DI only would not be difficult. The fuel supply would be there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reaper0995

colo_evo

Corporal
Jun 6, 2017
151
108
0
Ride
E90 335i MT
Readin Tonys post has made me curious about combustion pressures at high HP levels with DI..i dont know if you need to calculate cylinder pressure and increase HP to compensate

You're thinking of a diesel that has to overcome cyl pressure. These inject either during or right after intake stroke.
 

Sshec152

Corporal
Nov 3, 2016
213
118
0
Aston pa
I literally had no idea you posted this when I posted my photo. We did this a long time ago. Coming up on two years. Its possible, at that point, the stock rail is a restriction, and honestly, the stock injectors prob would not like it. They already get moody at 800+WHP. With a large billet rail, some upgraded injectors, and full control of the injector tables, 1000WHP DI only would not be difficult. The fuel supply would be there.
Obviously a billet rail wouldn’t be difficult, but what about the injector oart of things? I know it a piezo injector so that complicates things, but what’s stopping someone from creating better ones? Is it just funding and the fact that the n5x community is so small or are there actual physical hurdles that need surpassed? I’ve seen jake y say injection tables are not an issue. I’d love to be able to utilize di when i decide to go built motor and shoot for the stars
 

PUTC

Corporal
Oct 14, 2017
206
68
0
Ride
08 335xi
I kept looking for signs of photoshop in that picture, should have just scrolled down to see Tony’s post to know it real!!
 

[email protected]

Lieutenant
Nov 5, 2016
596
606
55
Bay Area
Obviously a billet rail wouldn’t be difficult, but what about the injector part of things? I know it a piezo injector so that complicates things, but what’s stopping someone from creating better ones? Is it just funding and the fact that the n5x community is so small or are there actual physical hurdles that need to be surpassed? I’ve seen jake y say injection tables are not an issue. I’d love to be able to utilize di when I decide to go built motor and shoot for the stars
Manfactures as large as Delphi does not even want to manufacture Piezo injectors due to the enormous cost. No one is the aftermarket will most likely be able to do anything to fix these. Why they start acting up at a certain level I am not sure. Elevated Cylinder pressure is my main guess.
 
Last edited:

[email protected]

Lieutenant
Nov 5, 2016
596
606
55
Bay Area
I kept looking for signs of photoshop in that picture, should have just scrolled down to see Tony’s post to know it real!!
That set up was running on a car 2 years ago. It works well. We have been so far ahead of the game it's really frustrating to see people catching up in the horsepower race. We literally had a closed deck built motor with 1200HP capable turbos on it again about 2 years ago. The motor turned out to be a disaster. We had to regroup, then started running the GC's for testing. We finally got stage 3 back on the car in Oct, made 870WHP, and immediately ran into issues. The car seems to be running well again, we should be able to get it dialed in soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aus335iguy

Twisted Tuning

Lieutenant
Platinum Vendor
Oct 25, 2016
966
880
0
New York
www.twistedtuning.com
Ride
N54 and N55 Cars
That set up was running on a car 2 years ago. It works well. We have been so far ahead of the game it's really frustrating to see people catching up in the horsepower race. We literally had a closed deck built motor with 1200HP capable turbos on it again about 2 years ago. The motor turned out to be a disaster. We had to regroup, then started running the GC's for testing. We finally got stage 3 back on the car in Oct, made 870WHP, and immediately ran into issues. The car seems to be running well again, we should be able to get it dialed in soon.


what issues did you run into with the injectors? I remember seeing you mention something about the car being rich? would you be 100% sure it wasn't quick spike of lean mixture then the DME dumping fuel to compensate?

Possibly at the power level that high, may need to start using injection timing tables to really get into the nitty gritty things. The injector limit hasn't been met yet at least in theory due to the fact we haven't exhaust increasing the injection time yet.

We did this back in like 08 maybe 09 or 10 on the DISI's when we thought we reached injector limits but we didn't. a millisecond or two extra injection time bumps fuel pretty good if the flow is there behind the injectors. just a thought.
 

[email protected]

Lieutenant
Nov 5, 2016
596
606
55
Bay Area
We do not have drops in rail pressure, so that is not it. The issues with the car were not solely injectors, we had to change some stuff chasing the issue. We nailed it down looks like, and plan to start tuning again this weekend. The injector issue is, for now, when boost comes on, one injector can not regulate fuel properly, not sure how or why, and that bank just goes dead rich. If you have experience with these cars. N54's do not mind running lean, they will lose a little power, but generally will not misfire even when dead lean. On the other hand, as soon as they go rich they misfire almost instantly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fmorelli

aus335iguy

Colonel
Nov 18, 2017
2,090
718
0
Down under
Ride
335i DCT 2009
We do not have drops in rail pressure, so that is not it. The issues with the car were not solely injectors, we had to change some stuff chasing the issue. We nailed it down looks like, and plan to start tuning again this weekend. The injector issue is, for now, when boost comes on, one injector can not regulate fuel properly, not sure how or why, and that bank just goes dead rich. If you have experience with these cars. N54's do not mind running lean, they will lose a little power, but generally will not misfire even when dead lean. On the other hand, as soon as they go rich they misfire almost instantly.
Like to hear how this goes. Good or bad it’s a good step forward.