Final Review of Propulsive Dynamics Upgraded Transmission - Very Good Unit.

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
Well folks, here is my final review of the PD Transmission that I bought over a year ago.
Due to my stock transmission going bye bye during tuning by Wedge (not saying that he caused it), I ordered a PD unit.

Initially when it was installed, it ran smoothly like stock. Then, if you have read my other reports about the nightmare that both I and Jason (the owner of PD) went through trying to get warranty work done by Eurotrans in Georgia… you would know that there were some rough periods where I had to send the unit back to Eurotrans because the rear planetary gear set went bad, and also the VB had some worn parts that I replaced with a Sonnax kit…as well as the torque converter. Now you might be tempted to blame this on PD, but it was really Eurotrans’ corruption that caused all these issues. PD did their best to honor the warranty and was in the same spot I was in… dealing with an unresponsive Eurotrans shop.

Anyways, before, during, and after all that foolishness, I was always trying to get the unit to shift properly and smoothly with xHP at any stage…but especially stage 3. And it just never shifted correctly. Symptoms were, lurching, hesitation, jerkiness, and then violent noises when under WOT. No matter what I did the thing just didn’t shift smoothly under WOT.

THE SOLUTION: So, even though all those things were real issues and had to be worked on under warranty, I finally figured out what caused the incorrect shifting behavior the entire time.

It turns out, that the stock EKPM3 controller was not able to supply a stable current to the stage 2 and later on additional stage 3 LPFP. So what ended up happening was the ECU would cut fuel intermittently and that caused the throttle to go apeshit, which confused the TCU and that would cause the shifting anomalies…it was going insane trying to figure out what gear to to into due to the inadequate EKPM3 controller.

So… I recently installed the PM4 Torquebyte LPFP controller configured to run two 450 Wahlbro pumps… and I have been testing xHP in all stages… and now I have been on stage 3xHP for a week now. Shifting has been smooth in normal driving mode even under high power and WOT. Sport mode was problematic for a longer time due to the different shifting parameters and power levels. So… what I did was drive the car in sport mode for the last three days in all situations both conservative and aggressively, AND I also adjusted the torque reduction settings, the max RPM settings… and now the car shifts normally and way smoother than any time in its history with the PD unit.

I want to take this moment to let you know that the Propulsive Dynamics hardware upgrade has not been the issue, the clutches are rock solid, the bushings rock solid… and only that episode with the faulty planetary gear was a problem…that was Eurotrans’ fault for cutting corners…only this was the hiccup.

If Propulsive Dynamics still has any clutch and bushing kits up for sale, I highly recommend you buy one and find a TRUSTWORTHY shop to assembly the upgraded parts. Then just do adaptations reset and the adaptations drive program and then drive for a week on Sport mode and then switch to normal mode and it should be smooth as butter.

I feel bad for Propulsive Dynamics as my problems with the unit were not due to their parts at all but the consequence of a corrupt and arrogant assembly shop in Georgia.
In summary, if you have issues with shifting behavior, whether or not you have an upgraded transmission or stock unit… and you are running stage 2 or stage 3 LPFP setups and you have the stock EKPM2 or 3 controller, you will have to upgrade to the PM4 Torquebyte controller in order to restore consistent fuel pressures to the system so that you TCU doesn’t go insane.

That be all.
 

Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
I'm sorry I got to say it me and you have had wars about third and I specifically quoted your controller issues and explained that it wasn't you , that you have a thorough build but you were very quick to point fingers. I do respect the fact that you are being honest cause you were die hard that their was no underlying issue but just imagine if you were wedge or someone else that was dodging stray bullets from you. I just want anyone that has been around to take this as a lesson before they do or say something that can effect someone's livelihood.
 

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
I'm sorry I got to say it me and you have had wars about third and I specifically quoted your controller issues and explained that it wasn't you , that you have a thorough build but you were very quick to point fingers. I do respect the fact that you are being honest cause you were die hard that their was no underlying issue but just imagine if you were wedge or someone else that was dodging stray bullets from you. I just want anyone that has been around to take this as a lesson before they do or say something that can effect someone's livelihood.
In the case of Wedge, it still does not explain why he could not get the car to run smoothly while Twisted could. Now how many people do you really think have figured this out? And how many people are still trying to tune their stage 3 LPFP without an upgraded PM4 Controller? I would say many.

So sooner or later, they too would possibly have had the same exact issues and if I had not made this experience known, they too would spend years trusting the advice from MANY VENDORS that an EKPM3 controller upgrade would fix their LPFL issues. Even worse, many of these people would have no idea and still be groping in the dark and never even thought of the EKPM3 unit as related to drivability issues.

Furthermore, what 'wars' with vendors are you referring to. I don't go to wars. I report my experiences. If nobody knows the solution I keep looking until one day I happen to find it. I get into arguments with people who think they know it all. And they sit in their vat of personal experiences and project those experiences onto my situation with no idea of my car or how I treat it. When they do that, I call them out. But going to war with vendors? No, sorry... it is not I who goes to war with anyone, it is they who go to war with me.

Just read the latest stupidity on the BMS forum about my report on their "bov kit". I go there to report that their bov line is smaller than the 6mm hose for the Tial nipple and the vendor comes in automatically claiming that accused them of supplying the wrong parts. Then another guy comes in to defend BMS saying that they did not advertise that the kit was compatible with the RB OCC hose size... and I'm thinking, "WTF? What is wrong with these people... of course they didn't say their kit was compatible with the RB OCC hose size...that's why I posting this to let people know".

In short, if you have a PD unit and the PM4 unit was not released, and you had my exact setup with Stage 3 LPFP... you too would be groping. Or do you think that I magically should have known that those issues were a result of not having a controller that did not exist at that time?
 

Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
Every car is different their are so many variables you are kinda contradicting right now. You are stating that people project their situation and know it all but you do the same in your first post. And if the know it all was directed at me I encourage you to read my posts again I made sure to commend your build as not being a hack job but kept stating that you need to one by one eliminate variables cause you were in denial that your car could have issue. Countless times you do something and say that the car is so smooth and like stock again which you state is your goal. This is great that you experience this but when you are grading a vendor it's best to show restraint before publicly sharing an opinion that has a shaky foundation. Yes you can argue that the vendor should be able to diagnose said issue but you hinder that ability when you are not open to the possibility that you had a hardware issue. It's very hard to be right when you don't have all the facts. Check this out who was wrong the tuner that couldnt get you dialed in with a hardware issue and wouldnt settle for less than perfect or the tuner that dialed back or worked around somehow leaving peak performance on the table. Neither was wrong and im sure the history with the first influenced the second. Your bov thing is something completely different , maybe im an idiot but I think you get defensive and assume the worst and unintentionally slander people but freak on response. I just hope people are more careful before stating things about products that may be wrong that was what the leave to professional comment from another member meant or the responses when you suggested a vendor was giving a sale on parts they knew were no good it's just think of the damage and look how you feel with my posts imagine how it feels when the claims are completely false that's all in sorry for the long post and sorry if you feel like I am attacking you. I do think I you have a great build and have good intentions for what it's worth.
 

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
"Every car is different their are so many variables you are kinda contradicting right now."
- Yes. So why would you refer to me in your 'wars' against vendors? I have never used another person's build or car to justify my problems in my car. That's on you.

"I made sure to commend your build as not being a hack job but kept stating that you need to one by one eliminate variables cause you were in denial that your car could have issue."
- What do you think I have been doing since day one of this journey?

"Countless times you do something and say that the car is so smooth and like stock again which you state is your goal. This is great that you experience this but when you are grading a vendor it's best to show restraint before publicly sharing an opinion that has a shaky foundation."
- What does this have to do with Wedge not getting the car correct after 12 tries and Twisted gets it running smooth on first tune? You are not paying attention.


"Check this out who was wrong the tuner that couldnt get you dialed in with a hardware issue and wouldnt settle for less than perfect or the tuner that dialed back or worked around somehow leaving peak performance on the table."
- BEFORE Stage 3 LPFP, BEFORE PD Transmission upgrade - >Wedge could not get my car to run correct after a simply MMP 2inch inlet, outlet upgrade. It would sputter, choke, and be uncontrollable throttle when pressing gas, sometimes it would make exploding noises and suddenly go into super high RPM, it never was controllable when pressing gas over 50%. When using less than 50% gas, it would have weak power and feel as if it had asthma. All iterations of the tune were variations of this behavior. First he said my turbos were spooling too fast, the fastest he had seen...made adjustments... then he said I needed to replace my HPFP (which were less than a year old), so I did. nothing he did made the car run better. So after 12 tries, I went to Twisted and he made it run 'normal' again with the 2 inch inlets and outlets.

And mind you this is BEFORE I got the upgraded the PD Transmission and before stage 3 LPFP (added only a few months ago), so any argument of those components being the cause is absolutely absurd. I don't know why you keep ignoring this and defending Wedge as if I am bashing him. These are the facts and I am not interested in saying "wedge sucks", I am sure he's done tons of successful tunes. This however is my experience and you cannot change that.

So I ask you one more time, how do you explain Wedge not able to tune my car with stock transmission, and stage 2 LPFP and 2 inch inlet/outlets... then Twisted being able to tune my car with even PD Transmission on first try before stage 3 LPFP which is even more complicated? I am not talking about insane power, I am talking about being able to safely drive the car under normal conditions, not aggressive driving at all.


"I just hope people are more careful before stating things about products that may be wrong that was what the leave to professional comment from another member meant or the responses when you suggested a vendor was giving a sale on parts they knew were no good it's just think of the damage and look how you feel with my posts imagine how it feels when the claims are completely false that's all in sorry for the long post and sorry if you feel like I am attacking you."

-This is a confusing sentence, but I believe you are talking about FCP Euro and the injectors which were not malfunctioning. I stand by my comments about that...the comment were Filippo came in all high and mighty and pissed off. Yes, I did suggest that it might be cheap and on sale because it might be subpar. It is a totally reasonable theory. It does not mean that they did that at all or that they knew about it. It's only a shot in the dark using the only reasonable logical theory I can find. Obviously it was untrue. But that suggestion I still stand by, not because I think or know it is true, but simply because it is a logical theory given total blackout on the company processes.
 

Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
I'm not saying your wrong and I'm right just was trying point out that what we post can affect how someone puts food on the table and theirs plenty of scammers that deserve to be outed but people should think before they post and make sure what they say good or bad is not based on emotion. This goes both ways theirs plenty of times people rave about something and influence others purchases to then later on their car blows up. You know what I apologize for even trying I was saying I respected you admitted you were wrong but maybe I misunderstood either way glad your cars good now.
 

Maniac0908

Specialist
Mar 22, 2018
89
Sooo from all of this I gathered that most of us will need an upgraded lpfp controller if stage 3z is this the only option? 700$ is a lot....
 

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
Sooo from all of this I gathered that most of us will need an upgraded lpfp controller if stage 3z is this the only option? 700$ is a lot....
If I upgraded even to stage 2 (that's one upgraded pump, let alone two on the stage 3) I would absolutely upgrade the controller at the same time...knowing what I know now. People will not understand it...because their car will work...just enough to get them through some logs but will never be smooth like stock because the voltage fluctuations affecting the ECU adjusting the fuel pump performance...so they will inevitably have lingering disappointment...the thought, "man, I thought these upgrades would make the car even better than stock...but it's not...it's got more power, but the drivability is worse for some reason." <---- that reason being, the pump controller cannot supply proper power to upgrade pumps...thus causing a chain reaction all the way up to all the systems including engine as well as transmission operations. The entire house of cards falls due to one single oversight...

Now I know. And I would never upgrade any fuel system without this upgraded controller. 700 is a lot??? yes, but not as much as the time you will spend and stress of trying to get your car running normal with more power. Throttle response is like factory...but with more power. No more stuttering, no choking, no choppiness, nothing...just instant power, and smooth transitions from 0 - 100%.
 

Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
I would log you lpfp if you aren't all over place you can wait. Honestly this has nothing do with trans and affects everyone that upgraded. Im sure fuel it is aware and that is why they came out with their new designs that use stock pump with a piggy backed pump. If stage 3 a temp solution is run stock for first pump as long as your not at limits you should be ok.
 

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
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Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,033
Boston
Here is the question do I buy it for the single walbro 450 I have now or for 3 pumps I may run down the way? I guess I could always sell it used...

$699 vs $1099 = $400 delta

Assuming they install some more E85 pumps in MA I would love to run full E85 some day...but that day may never come in my life time. Decision decisions...
 
Last edited:

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
Here is the question do I buy it for the single walbro 450 I have now or for 3 pumps I may run down the way? I guess I could always sell it used...

$699 vs $1099

Assuming they install some more E85 pumps in MA I would love to run full E85 some day...decision decisions...
Buy for two pumps and send for upgrade if you get third put in future. There is an upgrade price so you don't have to buy a new unit full price.
 
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Reactions: Torgus

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
Here is the question do I buy it for the single walbro 450 I have now or for 3 pumps I may run down the way? I guess I could always sell it used...

$699 vs $1099 = $400 delta

Assuming they install some more E85 pumps in MA I would love to run full E85 some day...but that day may never come in my life time. Decision decisions...
Also, I run full e85 with zero issues. Smooth as butter and brutal power when wot. And I have stock snails. Sounds like a full speed freight train when wot...seriously, engine sounds different than before port injection full e85.
 
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Reactions: Torgus

Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,033
Boston
I would kill for E85 close by. Closest is basically 1 hour South with no traffic. Going to be down a 1/4 tank by the time I get home. I would consider buying a barrel but unless there is a barrel exchange program it would be a PITA to dispose of.

Thanks for the advice, I am going to go with the two pump version and then pay for the upgrade later if I ever need it.

Now to get the thread back on track regarding the transmission upgrade!
 

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,076
I would kill for E85 close by. Closest is basically 1 hour South with no traffic. Going to be down a 1/4 tank by the time I get home. I would consider buying a barrel but unless there is a barrel exchange program it would be a PITA to dispose of.

Thanks for the advice, I am going to go with the two pump version and then pay for the upgrade later if I ever need it.

Now to get the thread back on track regarding the transmission upgrade!
OK, so here is my next test for the PD unit and xHP.

Stage 3 xHP is still not as good as I would like it...it was phenomenal when using stock transmission, but this upgraded trans is another deal.
That being said, currently, stage3 xHP runs much smoother than before I installed the BPM4 LFPF upgraded controller... but my aim is to get as close to stock civility with faster shift times as humanly possible. There was another user that had a NIZPRO upgraded billet transmission and he has the same unsatisfactory shifting with xHP stage 3 as I do.

So... I am going to now mess with the manual shift times and set it to shift as fast as possible, BUT, I will now flash to Propulsive Dynamics Stock Calibration. My theory is that the transmission will shift ultra smoothly with now the added benefit of superfast manual shift times. My hope is that the manual shift time adjustments will supercede the PD manual shift times. As for the automatic normal shift times, I don't really care about that since I don't go apeshit when in normal driving mode ever. And in sport mode, the stock PD calibration is good enough. It's the PD ultrasmooth shifting that I value above 'faster' automatic shifting.

Will report when adaptations are complete and I have driven for a few hundred mixed miles.
 
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